Roadmap to the Executive Suite

Empowering Women to Negotiate Salary and Create Better and Bigger Opportunities

May 06, 2021 Claudia Miller Season 1 Episode 14
Empowering Women to Negotiate Salary and Create Better and Bigger Opportunities
Roadmap to the Executive Suite
More Info
Roadmap to the Executive Suite
Empowering Women to Negotiate Salary and Create Better and Bigger Opportunities
May 06, 2021 Season 1 Episode 14
Claudia Miller

Are you still second-thinking about negotiating your salary? How can negotiating your pay empower you as a woman and get into a C-Suite position that you deserve?

In this episode, our very special guest, Jocelyn Clarkson, will enlighten us on how powerful negotiating can be! Jocelyn is a financial services professional, working in compliance, wealth management, and audit services. She is currently working with McDonald’s and also worked with OCC, Group One Trading, and EY.

She will talk about the first time she negotiated her salary at a young age while still in college and how it paved the way to better opportunities. She will also talk about why negotiating and talking about money should not be taboo. She will also give some tips that you can also use to help you get closer to the salary that you know you deserve. She will also talk about what she does when she is not working on her corporate job, which is super fun!

In This Podcast We Talk About:

  • How Jocelyn first negotiated her salary and how it affected her career moving forward.
  • What can you negotiate aside from just your salary? 
  • Why you need to get into the conversation and negotiate your salary when presented the opportunity versus waiting for a salary increase.
  • Why your previous salary is not supposed to be used as a benchmark for higher pay.

Connect With Jocelyn:
Jocelyn’s  Instagram:
@Jtelles0376 & @swapandstrut
Swap and Strut Website

Links Mentioned:
Roadmap to the Executive Suite
Get to know more about My 90-Day Job Offer Program here.
Application to Work With Claudia Miller.

About me:
I started my career like many people do: in an entry level role making around $35K a year, was the first to arrive and last to leave, putting a 110% into my job…But it wasn’t enough. 

I was consistently being passed up for promotions and realized I was being underpaid compared to my colleagues. 

I knew that in order to get ahead in my career and be able to make the money I wanted… to support the lifestyle I wanted…something had to change. 

So, I started investing in myself. I worked with a career coach, resume writer, read every career book that I could get my hands on, enrolled in career courses, and studied colleagues wo seemed to be crushing it in their careers. And after investing over $20,000 in resources, coaches, and books…and spending thousands of hours over five years…I realized that many of the common advice out there did NOT move the needle when it came to advancing your career! 

Instead, I handpicked and carefully selected what worked to create my now signature program, 90-Day Job Offer, that is unlike anything that is out there. I wish a program like this existed when I was going through my career advancement and salary negotiations. If so, it would have been a fraction of the cost and saved me over four years of frustration of trial-and-error. 

Since then, my clients have taken my ready-to-use resources to advance their careers in 90-days or less, and secured on average a 56% increase in salary (to date my clients have received $30,000 - $120,000 in additional earned income per year)!!

I help women in technology land fulfilling, high-paying jobs at a company that values and appreciates them. I’m on a mission to help women in tech collectively earn over a $1M in the next year. 

Will you join me?

Show Notes Transcript

Are you still second-thinking about negotiating your salary? How can negotiating your pay empower you as a woman and get into a C-Suite position that you deserve?

In this episode, our very special guest, Jocelyn Clarkson, will enlighten us on how powerful negotiating can be! Jocelyn is a financial services professional, working in compliance, wealth management, and audit services. She is currently working with McDonald’s and also worked with OCC, Group One Trading, and EY.

She will talk about the first time she negotiated her salary at a young age while still in college and how it paved the way to better opportunities. She will also talk about why negotiating and talking about money should not be taboo. She will also give some tips that you can also use to help you get closer to the salary that you know you deserve. She will also talk about what she does when she is not working on her corporate job, which is super fun!

In This Podcast We Talk About:

  • How Jocelyn first negotiated her salary and how it affected her career moving forward.
  • What can you negotiate aside from just your salary? 
  • Why you need to get into the conversation and negotiate your salary when presented the opportunity versus waiting for a salary increase.
  • Why your previous salary is not supposed to be used as a benchmark for higher pay.

Connect With Jocelyn:
Jocelyn’s  Instagram:
@Jtelles0376 & @swapandstrut
Swap and Strut Website

Links Mentioned:
Roadmap to the Executive Suite
Get to know more about My 90-Day Job Offer Program here.
Application to Work With Claudia Miller.

About me:
I started my career like many people do: in an entry level role making around $35K a year, was the first to arrive and last to leave, putting a 110% into my job…But it wasn’t enough. 

I was consistently being passed up for promotions and realized I was being underpaid compared to my colleagues. 

I knew that in order to get ahead in my career and be able to make the money I wanted… to support the lifestyle I wanted…something had to change. 

So, I started investing in myself. I worked with a career coach, resume writer, read every career book that I could get my hands on, enrolled in career courses, and studied colleagues wo seemed to be crushing it in their careers. And after investing over $20,000 in resources, coaches, and books…and spending thousands of hours over five years…I realized that many of the common advice out there did NOT move the needle when it came to advancing your career! 

Instead, I handpicked and carefully selected what worked to create my now signature program, 90-Day Job Offer, that is unlike anything that is out there. I wish a program like this existed when I was going through my career advancement and salary negotiations. If so, it would have been a fraction of the cost and saved me over four years of frustration of trial-and-error. 

Since then, my clients have taken my ready-to-use resources to advance their careers in 90-days or less, and secured on average a 56% increase in salary (to date my clients have received $30,000 - $120,000 in additional earned income per year)!!

I help women in technology land fulfilling, high-paying jobs at a company that values and appreciates them. I’m on a mission to help women in tech collectively earn over a $1M in the next year. 

Will you join me?

Unknown:

This is roadmap to executive suite podcast, a place where we talk about accelerating your careers and how to get to the C suite all tailored to the ambitious woman. We're here to have fun, feel empowered and get actionable steps to get you closer to your dream job and salary, no matter where you are in your career. I'm your host, Claudia Miller, and I'm a career coach who helps ambitious women get the jobs they want, all while getting them up to $50,000 in salary increases. I've been featured in Forbes, MSNBC, and a one of the top 23 Most Innovative career coaches of 2025 Business Insider. Welcome to the show, and let's get started.

Claudia Miller:

Hi, welcome. So today we have a special guest. Her name is Jocelyn Clarkson, and she's a financial services professional working in compliance, Wealth Management and audit services. And she has been working at amazing companies like UBS group one trading for Infineon are also known as e. Y, as well as mcdonnell's Johnson, I'm so happy to have you on the show.

Unknown:

Hi, thank you. I'm so happy to be on. I feel so honored to be here.

Claudia Miller:

Well, I am so excited. And you know, one of the reasons that I really wanted Jocelyn to come on the show is because she actually has negotiated her salary throughout her career. But I want you to hear her perspective as well. How was it the first time she did it, and some of the insights that she's learned throughout, because I do feel that it's hard to negotiate your salary, we don't negotiate. It's not a skill set that we use hourly, daily, weekly, or even annually. And as a career coach, I've even come across executives, where they tell me I've been working in the industry for 2530 plus years, I'm an executive, and I'm embarrassed to say it, but I've never negotiated my salary. So I wanted to bring someone on. And I know that Johnson has been able to do this successfully throughout her career. So I wanted her to come on the show to really talk about her experience, how is it making an impact in her career and share some of the insights, you know, that may help some of you negotiate your salary successfully, because I know it's not the easiest thing to do. So Jocelyn, I am so happy to have you on the show. So you know, one of the things that I wanted to start with is, tell me a little bit more about like where you're at today, I kind of want to give a lot of perspective to the listeners of like, you know, what do you do in your job, or just an overall perspective? And then take us back to how did it all started?

Unknown:

Right? You know, it's funny, as I look back how it really one thing led to another, it is all about networking. So right now I work for McDonald's Corporation, and I work in their internal audit services. So I am in charge of, you know, going into different business areas throughout all of McDonald's and just ensuring that they have the proper controls to mitigate the risks. Every process has a risk. So my background is an internal audit. So that's what I do for McDonald's right now.

Claudia Miller:

But we make so auditing sounds so much fun, because I know I talked to people, they're like audit, oh, my god, I can't stand it. Or it sounds so boring. But I mean, from what I hear, like what you do at McDonald's, it's amazing, like, had it not been COVID, you would have been traveling to different McDonald's locations to make sure that the processes was being followed, everything was up to par to McDonald's standards, because you want to make sure not only from like the service has been provided by like from the health, you know, behind the scenes, the process overall, making sure that everything's running how well it should be. So you have a really quite exciting job. And hopefully, we get to hear from you once you are getting ready to travel and say like, oh, this is how I've been done with those things in Australia and all these other interesting aspects of

Unknown:

it. Unfortunately, I missed out on a trip to Australia and Guatemala this year. But yes, my job is pretty interesting.

Claudia Miller:

So for someone who needs interesting, an audit, there's a lot of interesting, exciting side of audit where you can travel and really get to learn about different countries, different processes, and how to really mitigate risk against like different markets out there. So this is what you're currently are doing. Jocelyn sounds exciting, and it's great, but, you know, take us back to how did you do your first roll? Like how did that go? What was that process? Like?

Unknown:

You know, it all started back when I was at DePaul. So I went to DePaul University in Chicago. And I landed internships, you know, with a big investment firm and I worked for UBS. And so, obviously at that point, you know, I was getting paid minimum wage. I didn't even think about negotiating my salary. I was a freshman, you know, most college students get their internships, you know, their junior year, so I wasn't at a place where I believe that I was in that place to negotiate salary. But quickly after that, I went to work at the options Clearing Corporation. And then after two years, I went to work for Groupon trading. So I was working at a trading firm, and I was there you know, I would say about half a year. It was my senior year of college. knowledge. And so I was getting ready to go out into the real world. And I was looking for, you know, my next professional job. And my employer at the time came to me and said, you know, we'd like to ask for you a full time position. So I was ecstatic. I mean, I was still in college. And you know, the role was supposed to start my winter semester. So I was actually working professionally while still in college. So it wasn't one of those gigs where I had to wait until after I graduated. So I was excited, because, you know, I was a broken in college, and I was excited to have a job. And so one thing that viewed my perception of salary was talking to my friends. You know, I had friends who had majored in different areas, I majored in business, I had friends who had majored in other different areas, art, science, etc. And so, you know, I have friends who were older than me as well, who had already graduated a couple of years back. And so, as I was going into the workforce, I would ask my friends, what are you making? And the answer was pretty consistent across the board, you know, anywhere from 30 to 50,000. I would say, the 50,000 was like the outlier, but most of my friends were reporting 3035 40 45,000 is what, what I believed was the initial offer. So knowing that when it came down to my employer proposing this job offer to me. So before that, I thought, Okay, how much do I want to make? And ideally, I was like, Well, I want to be at on the higher end, I want to make 50,000, right? Like, this is what I'm thinking, I'm like, this is the dream. So they came back, and they offered me 60,000. And so I was blown away. And so now I think back and I kind of chuckle because I'm like, oh, you know, 60 pounds, I couldn't possibly live off that. But back then. And when my benchmark was 3035, maybe 50. If I was lucky, I was ecstatic. I was blown away, I thought that they had made a mistake, I thought that they accidentally, you know, gave me an extra 20,000. Like, I actually did not even believe when I saw the 60. I was like, Oh, this is amazing. accepts, right. But you know, with everything, I asked to take the agreement, home of the offer, and to review it. And you know, this is where I talked to you actually. And I came to you and I said oh my goodness, you know, I got this job. And I'm getting paid more than I thought I would this is amazing, right? And you actually said, Well, you're gonna negotiate, right? And I remember thinking, like, No, why would I negotiate? I got exactly what I want even more. And you're like, well, just do it. You know, just negotiate. You know, you never know, the worst that can happen is you stay at your 60. And I just remember, I thought, why would I negotiate? I haven't even graduated college. I have no, I mean, no actual professional experience. under my belt, I have no certifications, I'm not an MBA, why am I worthy of that. And especially having that guilt, knowing that I was making double what my friends were making, you know, couple years at a college, I should be thankful I should be grateful for what I have. And I just felt that requesting more. It was just it was greedy of you in a way. But I decided to go in the next day and just ask for I believe I tried to negotiate 70,000 I remember scheduling a meeting with the HR representative. And I was literally shaking as I was typing the message saying, Hey, I would like to talk to you and discuss the offer. And I remember walking into the office and I wanted to vomit. I was so nervous. I didn't even like I knew what I wanted to say. But I felt like I was talking BS, you know, like, I felt like she could see through me. So what I did, you know, I asked for what I wanted, I researched, um, how much, you know, people in compliance for trading firms were making, you know, as analysts or associates, and so, you know, the average was anywhere from 60 to like, 7580. So I thought, okay, you know, I'm still within that range, but based on the market research that I did, and the amount that I wanted, you know, I

Claudia Miller:

said, Okay, let

Unknown:

me try to negotiate 70 Even though I'm still in college, and so I went in there into the office, and I don't even it was almost like a blackout. I was so nervous, that I don't even remember what I said or how I said it. It was like one of those moments where you get proposed to and you're just so full of emotions that you just lack out and you forget what they even say. It was like that. And so I just remember explaining probably the HR rep probably could sense the nervousness in my voice, but I just said you know, I appreciate the offer so much. I'm very thankful, based on my market research and based on where I want to be, you know, I think 70 is a better fit. And then I said one key phrase that you actually told me to say is that, how close can we get to that? So I think that allows for flexibility. For me, it allows me to show that hey, I want 70. But if you can't make that, like, I know, I'm flexible, but also I'm there and like, what can you do? If you can't provide me the 70? Can you provide me extra time off? Can you provide me additional stock share additional benefits? Can you pay for myself? Oh, my internet, like, so I think it opens up the conversation to not just money, but also to other perks and other benefits.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah. So I mean, one of the things that I would actually have to argue with you kind of an appoint is, you said you didn't have any certifications, you didn't have any professional experience. But you said and I know this, because you know, I've worked with you and I've known you for quite some time is that you actually did have experienced, you've done multiple internships, you've done a lot of work, you had been working with a company, you knew their processes, you know how to do the work, right, and you probably already had been doing the work. So sometimes we don't need to have professional, full time experience to consider that a skill set or experience like your internships, even sometimes, you know, when you're in school, you have to do some consulting work or shadow a company that itself becomes experienced, because you still know more than a person that's never done or never worked at that company don't don't even know what systems they use. So you didn't have that experience. And just to kind of some listeners out there that might be in your situation like, yeah, it's yours, right? Like I don't have any experience, all I have is internships and I'm playing to my first job out of college or even while in college is you do have that experience, right having, and that's why you got the interview. Another thing is people tend to not negotiate. One is just they don't negotiate, but to is I already got that salary that I wanted, why am I going to negotiate? Why am I going to rock the boat, and there's still room for negotiation. And I may not always be in salary, but it could also be in benefits, like you mentioned, time off. But another thing that you can look into is stipend there are some women out there are companies out there, they actually they offer daycare stipend. And I've heard from my friends that have kids like it can be anywhere between 14 and $1,500 a month, per child. So that can be quite an impact. It can also be like extended restricted stock units, stock can be worth a lot, it can also be they can pay for your MBA, or if you want to continue your education or pay for that expensive certification after depending on your industry, companies are happy to do that. Because they get to put them as a tax write off, they make you happy, and they're happy because they get to gain that skill set and then still have you know, you as an employee working as a company, they get to benefit the rewards of you getting those certifications. So there's a lot of things to negotiate aside from salary. But you always want to negotiate even if they offer you something amazing above whatever their salary ranges. So negotiate, there's still room for improvement.

Unknown:

Right? Yeah. And to your point, how I think about it today, that scenario, I certainly, you know, feel that I was experience. And I think about how much easier or how much harder it is to go out into the market and find, you know, someone else to replace, right to fill in that role to spend the time on recruiters to pay them their portion, and then to do that research to interview and then tobacco into train. And I think about it now, you know, I do think that they were in a good position to offer me the role, when I do think that I was worth what I negotiated. But I think at that point in time, you know, granted, I was 21. So I was naive, new to the workforce. I had no idea, right. And so thinking looking back at it now, you know, with wiser eyes and all the experience that I've had, and everything that I've learned, I do agree with you. I do agree that I did have the experience at that point in time. I just did not know it, unfortunately.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah, no, it's good. And I'm glad that at least now because I've even worked, like I said, with executives. And they're like, I have never negotiated my salary code. And I've realized either I found out that somebody else is getting paid 50 80k more than me. So now I know I need to negotiate to how do I do that. Usually there's something that triggers them. And once they realized how much they're being underpaid, they're like I was happy with my salary. But then I found out that Bob, you know, from the other department is making way more than me and we're doing the same job attending the same meetings, managing the same amount of people. How come this person gets to make more than I do when we're doing the same work and I totally agree.

Unknown:

Me, Bob.

Claudia Miller:

And I always say a lot of listeners out there that might say well maybe Jocelyn is just different or maybe like it can happen for me like I need to put in my dues or put in my work experience before I start making like for example I just had a recent client where you know, they're currently making around 60 And based on quick research I did I'm like usually get any paid over between 80 to 90,000. And his response was, Well, you That sounds good, though maybe I can get through in the next few years. And I told him, No, you're already doing the job. If I go to another company, you can get paid 80 to 90,000. I'm not saying that that should, that should be a number you should aspire to. I'm saying that's how much you should be getting paid for the job you're doing right now. It's not even like it's a lateral move. And he just couldn't believe it. He was just like, well, it will take me some time. And one of the things I said, like you can be making 80 90,000 making that 20 30k salary increase within this 90 days.

Unknown:

Yeah, you know, one thing that I have realized is that, going back to that conversation that I had with the HR rep, when I was negotiating my salary was, that meeting did not last more than five minutes. And I came out of there, at least, you know, there were some contingencies. So they came back, and then they offered me what I wanted, but there was a contingency, you know, they said, once you get your diploma, you know, we'll do half of that. And then once you get your diploma, we'll give you exactly for what you want, which, you know, was six months away, but they were able to work with me, so they didn't meet me with what I requested. But I think, you know, to think about, you know, let's say it's $10,000 salary increase, right, all it took for me was to have a five minute conversation. And if you think about that, from just a regular, if you just wait for promotions to come, you know, some jobs, you know, you get anywhere from like, one to 6% salary increase every year, like, you would literally have to wait, like three years, three to five years to get those 10 grand, whereas you can just have a five minute conversation and get your, you know, that salary that you want, five minutes versus five years, I'll take five minutes. But also, it makes it easier to negotiate. During those point in times, you know, I think it's so easy to negotiate when an offer is presented, when you're just getting a new job, because, you know, you don't have to go out of your way, and schedule like a, you know, a random meeting with your manager and say, Hey, come out of the blue and say I want to raise, you know, I think this is a perfect time to do it, this is the easiest time to do it. HR professionals, they are expecting you to do it. It's almost like a poker game. You know, unfortunately, it's you go in, and they're expecting you to rebuttal with or counter with what you want. And I think also, you know, it earns you a badge of respect, I think, you know, if I think about if I'm a manager, and I'm hiring someone, and I say, okay, the salary ranges anywhere, anywhere from 80 to 100. I offer at and they accept 80, they don't counter, you know, while I'm happy, you know, it might make me question, okay, is this the kind of person that I want working for me, they clearly don't have the negotiation skills are not fighting for, I guess what they want or not, you know, just checking to see, right. And so if I'm in sales, I think, Alright, well, is this person going to be a good fit? Is this person going to go out and try to negotiate better deals with vendors? Like is this person have that? I guess that I don't know what to call it that muscle? I guess or to do that? So I think, you know, it's so many positives come out of it. And I think the worst that could happen is they say no, and you go somewhere else.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah. And one of the things I you know, kind of show like Sorry, negotiation, being able to do it confidently without being combative or anything, it shows a different level of competency as a professional, where you can have these uncomfortable conversations, because they tend to be uncomfortable. But joint is such a nice, you know, way of like, Hey, this is how close can we get to this number? Or is there any way we can close that gap? All of a sudden, you're showing a skill set of competency that I now confessed to even more if I send you to negotiate or work with vendors, I know I'm confident that you can have those conversations and look in the best interests of the company, because I decided to do it for yourself. So you don't have to tell me how great your negotiation like you told me, right, a great negotiator. But you're now negotiating your salary, I'm going to question your skill set exactly, you don't even have to say and all of a sudden, it raises the bar of how I see you in value as an employee, because you have this competency skill set that it is hard to find. It is hard to get. But now you've already showed it to me. And now you can practice that muscle that now up to this point, it's it just becomes the norm.

Unknown:

Right. And one thing that I have have, there's a little bit more flexibility with startups, smaller companies, as opposed to big corporations. You know, I found that negotiating salary is a little bit more complex with bigger companies. Because a lot of times the HR representatives will say, Well, this is our policy, and this is the range and that we pay everyone and if we pay you more than we've had to pay everyone else. So that's actually what I've heard in the past. And so I think in those scenarios, it's even more important for you to come prepared with okay, if I don't get the financial salary that I want, what else do I want? And in those same instances when they question my rebuttal, I guess for salary, they've always come back with a sign in bonus, or you know, additional time off off. So do not be discouraged is what I'm telling your listeners is. I know. And I've worked for smaller companies, and I've worked for big, large companies with policies. And there's always a way to negotiate, you just have to come in prepared. And like Claudia mentioned, just willing to be flexible. And I think it's all really about messaging. It's how you message it, you don't be confrontational, obviously. But I think it's when you show your strengths, and you say, you position it in a way that you're showing that you're flexible, but also competent, they'll be less likely to want to play that, you know, I hate calling it the game, but unfortunately, is that salary negotiation game.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah. And one of the things that I mean, I even had, like, actually one of our guests in the podcast where they said, you know, typically I, when I do extend a job offer, I give them somewhere around the middle, so that when case negotiate, it still stays within my salary range, but what's most surprising is no one ever negotiates and they just walk away with that number. And I know, I know from the other side is they could have walked away and made another extra 510 15k. So a lot of managers out there expect you to negotiate. So that's why they offer you the mid range of that salary, so that we negotiate the system within that budget. So don't be afraid. You know, it's kind of expected in a lot of those fields. And kind of to that point is the point, the reason why it's able to come out, as you know, easygoing, is because the practice around it now the first time, I will probably say you're probably sounding very nervous, or maybe that's just in your mindset. But what I've seen is when you come in as confident and cool, and you know, hey, you know, like, how can we close that gap? And I've been in situations too, and they're like, we can't, this is really what we had budgeted for. And it was an internal position. And I was like, you know, what I can I brought up back the pain points that we're having, you know, based on my background and expertise and my understanding of A, B, and C, I'm confident I can help you make achieve like those business goals. But you know, what I'm looking for, in order for me to make this transition, especially if it's internal. I'm really looking for a salary of Blink, is there any way we can close the gap? Right, like, well, I don't know, I'll have to see. And then just stay quiet. And then they'll just say, Okay, well, let me get back to you. Right, and then they came back. And they offer I think they were originally offered me like $1,000 more. At the end of the day, they were after that negotiation, they're offering $25,000 more they can trust me, they're companies, they can find $10,000. Like, it probably costs more offer to replace all the light bulbs, their light bulb budgets, probably 30 40,000, they

Unknown:

had one employer, one of the bigger companies I've worked for, you know, really position themselves very sternly. And you know, I had to come back and say, I had to get really creative with my way, you know, what I was coming back with, but I speak Spanish. And so a lot of the work that I was doing was, you know, in international countries, as well as international banks. And so I said, you know, you have translators that you hire, you contract, other agencies who translate for your staff, I speak Spanish, the word you can put me on the spot, and you don't need to pay a translator, you would actually save right? And what I'm asking is less than what those contractors would cost. And so I think you really need to, like I mentioned, go in it very prepared, what are your strengths? What are your skills, but again, even the most stern largest corporation that everyone gets paid this, that might be true, but not everyone has the same perks? Yeah,

Claudia Miller:

I definitely agree. So then now, like Johson, so tell us a little bit more like so we kind of heard about, like, how you started your first Saturday negotiation conversation? How has it been since then?

Unknown:

You know, it's been crazy to see the domino effect, right. And really, I stem it all to that first time I negotiated my salary. Right. So I was already, you know, getting paid a reasonable salary that, you know, that I was happy with. And so, when I went into my next role, you know, one thing that I didn't know, right now, I know not to disclose this, but I, my second job, the HR representative was like, What do you make your current job, and so I shared that. And so they benchmark that and offered me something slightly higher. At that point in time, you know, again, naive 21 At this point might have been 22. I didn't know that I, you know, just because I'm going in for a different job. My previous pay is irrelevant to what I'm going to get paid now. And so I made the mistake of sharing that with them. If I were smarter, I probably would have added another 20 in there. But I think, you know, using that as a benchmark, you know, it definitely helped raise the salary for the next role. But so let's say you know, in that case, instead of the 70, I would have stuck to 60 that where I when I got my second job, you know, that recruiter probably would have came Back at 70. But because I was at 70, they came back at 80. And so I think it really builds upon your previous roles as well, because you're also less likely to accept a job that's going to give you a, you know, that's a pay cut, but also establishes this form of normalcy around, negotiating, right? Like, I'm not questioning anymore, whether I should or shouldn't, whether, you know, I'm worthy enough, or whether I have enough experience, like, I know, this is part of the process, I know, going into the job that this is just like signing the offer letter, it's part of the process, I'm going to negotiate something, you're going to come back with something, you know, we might end there, we might keep going. But I really have found that throughout the course of my career, I've gotten better, I've gotten more perks, and it really has built upon, you know, the last job and the few jobs because again, even though now I don't disclose my salary to my new employers, but I'm also not going to take something lower. So I set the bar for myself as well. But you know, I think one of the biggest, most transparent lessons that I learned in my professional career was, I was working with a company, and we were short staffed over a small group. And I was in charge of putting together the job descriptions, you know, selecting the candidates, you know, funneling them to my manager, so I can, you know, interview them, I put together the interview questions, I was basically on the back end, facilitating the entire hiring process. But I wasn't interviewing and I wasn't obviously approving salaries, and I wasn't like HR, obviously. So we were looking for a specific role, it was a higher role. And we had two roles to fill. Both, I would say we're about similar job requirements, you know, expectations. And I had the visibility on the back end to see you know, what, because I also had to do the budgets for those departments. And so I knew how much people were getting paid. And so when it came time to hire these individuals, one individual ended up walking away. Because this individual negotiated with 230,000, the other individual who did not negotiate their salary, same role, same title, walked out with 180,000. So you're literally talking $50,000 on the table?

Claudia Miller:

About in two years is 200,000.

Unknown:

Yeah, and it was the same rule. And so literally, I was like, Oh, they're gonna say something like, I thought, oh, there's no way that they're going to pay this person, you know, 230, and this person went at, like, someone's going to, like, say something and close the gap. Oh, no, that was approved. And it went on, like, and so I was on the backend, like, really? These person are really, I was like, very, it's a 50,000, our gap dip? Are you kidding me? And, yeah, that's what happened. And so you know, the difference between negotiate your salary and, versus not. And so after that experience that I had, you know, after that lesson, I realized, wow, like, the companies are not going to fight for you. You know, I think that companies do want to pay you competitively, but that's it, they just want to stay competitive, and they want to keep you, but I don't think, you know, most companies are not going to go above and beyond and say, Oh, hey, you know, Gene, we're actually paying this person, you know, 1000, more than you in the same role you deserve. Let me here's this, close that gap, they're not going to do it for you. And so you have to do it for yourself. But that was probably the biggest best lesson that I had in terms of salary negotiation. And after that, I'm like, Nope, I am going to negotiate every single offer that I come across from now on.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah, I love hearing about those stories, because it shows again, like the importance of negotiating your salary. It's not like, I know people and you know, at least into my friends sarcoma, especially when I was working professionally, I always disclosed by salary. I mean, I had a Business Insider article that told every Business Insider reader out there how much I was making in salary. But again, I want to be able to have those conversations because it gives me a perspective and kind of two years is like, Oh, this is the norm, probably not like the best thing. But once you started seeing that, you started seeing like, Hey, I have to have like a, b and c and have 10 years of experience to be making 60,000 You were able to see that eventually, because they offered it to you or to that level. So one of the things is like, it is hard, it's very uncomfortable. That's why I tell my clients if you're gonna go to yourself, practice, practice, practice, practice, that you're blue in the face, practice until you're like you know what, I can't wait to have this conversation. It's like a stop practicing that already. And that's when it comes out so natural, because it is a very awkward conversation for some people, especially depending on the culture where you're coming from talking about money is taboo. It's greedy. All these other things that come around that but on at the end of the day is you have to advocate for yourself. And this is just part of the strategy, you get extended that job offer you negotiate until you both come to an agreement, you signed a job offer and then move on. Because it is hard to negotiate your salary once you're internally, or especially even internally, when you're getting promoted and moving up. That's where I've seen to where they'll be like, oh, you know, usually get one or 2% salary raises. But since we're promoting you, maybe we'll give you like a five 10% salary increase, and you're happy because you're used to the one 2%. Right, but have you gone to another company or in the market, then you're gonna start realizing that would have been a 30 40k salary increase, but now it's only a temporary decrease maybe an extra 10 15k?

Unknown:

Yeah, I think, you know, also, I'm very open about salary, especially when it comes amongst coworkers, right? We're working for the same company. A lot of people are uncomfortable. And I know, that's taboo. But I think that if people openly talk about their salary, you'll quickly realize how much you're being underpaid. And I don't know if that's why there's taboo around it. I don't know. You know, I think people don't want to share, you know, I realize coworker, friends, I always asked, and I always gotten, you know, I've received some responses, like, oh, I don't disclose that, like some of your business. And I'm like, what, that's fine. I respect that. But you know, I've heard from other co workers, and they've told me and I'm like, wow, either I'm underpaid, or you're underpaid. And I think having that information. I don't think it hurts anyone having that information. I think it just makes you make better decisions, better counters. And so, you know, if you're having a talk with your girlfriends, or your friend, coworker, friends have that conversation, I think it's productive. You know, again, if you're comfortable with it, I generally think the more people talk about it, the less disparity, there'll be between salaries, because people will be better informed. But I think, you know, going back to the topic of being nervous, you know, one couple tips that I have is just write out a script, you're not going to follow it word for word, obviously, but have a script, I think one of the things that really contributes to nervousness is not being prepared, right? Like if you know, you're not prepared, you know what, you don't know what you're gonna say, like, of course, you're gonna be nervous. But if you have a script, if you have a list of things that you can negotiate, so think about, if they don't come back with this number, what else say I want an extra week or two weeks of time off? I want stocks, or I want you to pay for my internet, I want you to pay for my pet insurance. That's the thing I want you to pay for myself. Oh, can you offer me a sign on bonus? Can you offer me like a mid evaluation between the mid year you know, can you offer training certifications? Can you pay for my college? You know, I'm bilingual. So you don't have to pay, you know, the translator. So I think having a long list of just think about all the things if you have that array, now you have your scripts you fractus a couple times, you'll go into that conversation less nervous, I promise you.

Claudia Miller:

Well, thank you so much, Jocelyn. So I mean, Jocelyn, like she says, she says have quite an impressive background and experience with financial services. She's doing amazing things in audit, but so tell the listeners, what do you do when you're not working? This is really amazing. I love having women that are doing amazing things. So I want the listeners to hear about what you're doing when you're not working working this amazing job.

Unknown:

Thank you. I think it's funny because my professional career has been, you know, in Finance, Financial Services, math based, you know, science and so I need a creative outlet. And so I actually run a women's clothing company, it's, it's a women's clothing rental company. So sort of like the way I like to describe it as like Rent the Runway, but I make all the clothes. So my free time this is my creative outlet. It's my way to exercise those entrepreneurship business muscles that I have, and also just be creative and design fashion. So you can check it out at swap, and stretch.com. I know it'll be provided probably in the link below. But yeah, take a look. I think it's good to always have, you know, a creative outlet outside of work. You know, I think life doesn't necessarily revolve around work. And so it's good to pursue your passions outside of the office.

Claudia Miller:

And also like the skill sets, you're learning on your business, you can apply now to your career. So now you can say, I know how to create a strategy. I know how to make it execute on it. I know how to build a business from the ground up. I've learned marketing techniques and learn vendor management. I mean, those skill sets that sometimes like a lot of the skill sets that we may have during our hobbies or businesses on the side or freelancing that we might do. You can leverage that skill set for your career workplace. But Jocelyn has anyone given herself enough justice. She actually was just recently that Chicago Fashion Week where her designs were walked around by you know, the models that she had, and she designs it so she taught herself how to design clothes. You're not the best job ever, right? Not at all. So it's like she learned how to design The clothing standard manufacturer is having a company you have employees where they're producing all the clothes there so that way and running like the front end of that business where you know, women can go and branch clothing or purchase that if they like, directly from the designer and knowing that it's all women. So company powered by women or women.

Unknown:

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So thanks, Jocelyn,

Claudia Miller:

again, for sharing your experience with listeners, I wanted them to hear from somebody who has successfully negotiate their salary, knowing that it's not easy to do, but it's something you want to do to advocate for yourself as well, and the benefits that can come from it, or things that you may be missing out because of it. So I hope you found this episode helpful. Jocelyn, thanks again for coming to the show, and really sharing your experience telling us about you know, what it was to negotiate from the first time to or currently. And if you you know, hopefully, you can continue finding this podcast helpful for you and throughout your career to helping you accelerate, move to the next step and really give you the resources in order for you to be successful in your career. So Jocelyn, tell the listeners, where can they find you?

Unknown:

So personally, you can find me on Instagram. I'm a sucker for Instagram. You can find me at Jay T E LL. E. S 0376. So that's Jay Taylor 0376 on Instagram. And if you're curious about my clothing business, you can follow me on Instagram as well at swap and strut. Right and

Claudia Miller:

I'll include all the links in the show notes so that way, if the listeners are interested, they can go ahead and reach out to you or follow you in both of your accounts on Instagram. Thanks again. I'm so happy to have you.

Unknown:

Thanks for listening. And if you like this episode, you can go to our website roadmap to the executive suite.com For show notes and sign up to get alerts. All new episodes will be posted every Thursday. Talk to you next week.