Becoming a Successful Career Woman in a Male Dominated Industry

Unknown: 0:07

This is roadmap to executive suite podcast, a place where we talk about accelerating your careers and how to get to the C suite, all tailored to the ambitious woman. We're here to have fun, feel empowered and get actionable steps to get you closer to your dream job and salary, no matter where you are in your career. I'm your host, Claudia Miller, and I'm a career coach who helps ambitious women get the jobs they want, all while getting them up to$50,000. In salary increases. I've been featured in Forbes, MSNBC, and a one of the top 23 Most Innovative career coaches of 2025. Business Insider. Welcome to the show. And let's get started.

Claudia Miller: 0:43

Hi, I'm so excited to have her. She's actually a good friend of mine. And once you hear her story and just listened to the rest of the podcast, you'll know why she's amazing. But just to give you a little bit of background about her, she's a career driven mom of two making her way in a male dominated industry, a passion for helping businesses realize their full potential in pursuit of making the workplace, truly a place where people want to be. And she's currently the regional sales manager at Citrix. Jordan, I'm so happy to have you on the show.

Unknown: 1:15

Thanks for inviting me. I'm happy to be here.

Claudia Miller: 1:17

Yeah, of course. And of course, I had to send Jordan a text message. I'm like, you have to be on the show, I want you to be on. And so, you know, tell some of the listeners a little bit more just about you. Overall, like I mentioned, though, you're in a male dominated industry, you're in sales, but just a quick snapshot of like who you are as a professional. And, and then I'll ask you more questions about what it took to be one of the top sales rep within a male dominated industry and crushing it even after coming out of maternity leave, and still being one of the top reps.

Unknown: 1:50

Yeah, so it's been an interesting journey. So I've been at Citrix the company, Matt, now for my entire professional career, I was recruited right out of college and had no technology background whatsoever. I, you know, had a psychology degree and a Spanish degree and had no experience with technology. And I was truly approached at a career fair in pursuit of a job as our college students are. And the recruiter at the time was actually not there. So the VP of Sales talked to me and said, What do you think about sales? And, you know, at the time, I was very hesitant about sales, I said, you know, I don't think that's for me, I'm, there's always the top guy who, you know, makes all the money and everybody else is just trying to get there. I mean, you laughed, right. He said, Well, you know, it's a lot different at the company I'm at, I think you should give it a shot. I like your personality. Let's talk more 10 years later, here, I am, obviously, in sales, so it worked out. But I really grew up at Citrix, learn the business, inside out, learned all of the things I needed to know about the organization, all of the things that I needed to know about the technology, and then learn sales along the way. Right. So that's kind of the whole background of how I got to where I am today. It's been quite a ride.

Claudia Miller: 3:11

Yeah, and talk a little bit more, because I know you started as inside sales, and then you got moved into Chicago because you weren't in Chicago originally. Let's talk a little bit more about that process.

Unknown: 3:23

Yeah. So when I was recruited, they basically had this guinea pig program of college recruits for gonna get them into sales. They already had it on the engineering side, but they were trying to do it on the sales side. And so, you know, it took a couple years in Fort Lauderdale to really learn the business and, you know, learn what Citrix was about and what that meant for our customers. And that took me through about two or three roles in our Fort Lauderdale office, kind of more of an inside sales role. And then, you know, I'm from the Midwest and from Michigan originally. And so I knew I always wanted to get back north. As nice as the Florida weather was, I knew I wanted to get back north, and the hiring manager at the time, I really had just called him for advice on getting to a field job one day. And, you know, he took that call, turned it into a mock interview and said, I think you'd be perfect for this job up here. I have this great region and Chicago, I think you'd be great for it. And he really took a chance on me. So I'm super grateful for him giving me that opportunity. I kind of came out of nowhere. It was my dream to move to Chicago, I never thought I would have gotten it. That spot just happened to be open. And he was looking for somebody and you know, he gave me a lot of coaching. And I have to admit, looking back on some of the early days kind of moving out to the field and seeing how green I was in the role. It was a little bit embarrassing. Going back to those first customer meetings and having no clue what I was doing. But he had my back anyways, and it worked out. I ended up being really successful in the role thanks to the team behind me. So it was a Good move for sure.

Claudia Miller: 5:01

And then just to give a little bit more perspective, like who do you typically meet with? Because I want to know, I want the listeners to know, like, the level that you have to be where you're at. It's not like you're talking to, you know, customers where it's like a 510, maybe$300 deal, just give a little perspective or snapshot of like, what is the average deal? Or who are you getting in meetings with to really help, like the sales process are really guiding them into finding out what are the best resources they can use from your company?

Unknown: 5:32

Yeah, so that's a really good question, Claudia. So there's the average deal size and the average deal size we're going after, right. And they're two different things here. Because it's, you know, all dependent on company circumstances, I guess. And we've also gone through a very weird year with COVID, and what businesses are doing so it's kind of evolved a bit. But typically, the goal of our organization is to have our field sellers meet with the C suite at organizations. And so that's people who make business decisions, right? It's not somebody who makes a decision about a tactical problem that they have, they're looking for something to help create operational efficiencies, generate more revenue, have higher employee retention, crush their own competition become a more desirable place to work, talent, retention, you name it. So it's those big overarching company ideas that we're looking to get out of a customer, right, and we want them to tell us that and nobody's at a lower level at a company is going to be able to have that information. So we're targeting those C level executives. So that's chief people, Officer, Chief Operating Officer, obviously, it's the CIO, because we're in technology, but it's all of his peers, and her peers, and their ideas really shape what we're going to sell. And, you know, the deal sizes and the dollar values. I mean, these can be upwards of several million dollars within our space here in Chicagoland. And you know, that's nothing to sneeze at. Right? So you have to have that level of visibility within an organization if they're going to be spending that kind of money with us.

Claudia Miller: 7:05

Yeah, so I mean, for some of the listeners out there, cio stands for Chief Information Officer. So Jordan is going into the boardrooms, let's just say a company's like, and I'm just making these examples. I'm not saying these are the clients, but for examples like Target or WalMart, maybe even Verizon, and she's going in meeting with like the CEO or Chief Information Officer, Chief Technology Officer, getting in the boardroom with them, and really understanding their pains of what they're currently going through, and what is the solution is going to look like so that way she can better create a strategy of what what are the best resources that will meet those business needs. So joining this a real deal, and she is amazing. She's, as you can tell, like she has a great personality. And so you've been in sales for quite some time as a sales rep. And now recently, you just got promoted to regional sales manager. So tell me a little bit more about like that process? How did it go, because this is your first time manager role. So you did break into management, not only that it's a regional sales manager role. So it's not like you have just over a specific location, it's a specific region that now you're overseeing. So talk to me a little bit more about like, what was that process? Yeah.

Unknown: 8:16

So and I guess I'll even started at, you know, I noticed one of your questions or potential questions was, how did you get into this role? You know, Did you plan this, and, you know, kind of starting back from there, I didn't plan it right, I was always comfortable being an individual contributor to the company kind of self reliant. And, you know, I was always a little bit turned off by the executive track going up management, because that meant you had to other people were responsible for your success, right. And so that's a hard pill to swallow, if you are so used to being fully dependent on yourself, right. And it's a hard transition. So I wasn't so sure that that wasn't a path for me, in fact, about five years ago, my manager at the time and said, Hey, this seems like a great path for you, you have a great personality for managerial skills. And, you know, I said, No, no, not for me. Obviously, life happens, things change, you know, had two kids in the process in the past five years. And, you know, so I started really to rethink about what my long term strategy was, and if it really was in management, and you know, so I think the answer was, yes, I think my favorite part of the job I was doing was coaching other people to be better at what they were doing. And really helping our customers see the value and what we were providing for them and being able to do that on a larger scale, not just with my own customers, but with my peers, customers, that was really appealing to me. So, you know, the process of getting into that role was quite interesting. I thought it was going to be I hadn't been interviewed in like 10 years, right? I would have been doing this job for so long. And I'm like, Oh, God, what is it going to be like and you know, what kind of questions are they going to ask? Me and you know, shout out to you, Claudia, you kind of put me in the right headspace ahead of time to say, okay, like, they're gonna focus on the things that I already know how to do. I just need to present that information the way they want to hear it. And it was, you know, well, how do you deal with failure? How do you deal with somebody who's not performing on the team? How do you deal with, you know, all of these operational headwinds, but then still have to sell at the end of the day? Or have your team sell at the end of the day? And those were the kinds of questions they wanted to know that I already knew the answers to. But it was just me presenting that information to them. And, you know, I talked to mostly sales leadership during the interview process. And so all of their questions were very similar, because they all have the same mindset. How do you make money at the end of the day? So yeah, and I mean, I was kind of already doing the job ahead of time. And they say the best way to get the job is to do the job before you get the job. Somewhere, I was starting to do that in my current role. So it was a pretty seamless transition. So I'm still catching up to speed on some of the other stuff, but it's going well so far.

Claudia Miller: 11:06

Well, congrats, again, on your new promotion. And like I said, just overseeing and becoming the new regional sales manager where you are receiving a few sales reps and within multiple territories. It's not like you just have in Chicago, it's probably the Midwest. Right?

Unknown: 11:20

Right. Yeah, we're currently at the Great Lakes. So yeah, that's kind of okay. Yeah.

Claudia Miller: 11:25

So tell me, I mean, you've been with the company for a while, and there's other, you know, women within the sales industry. What do you attribute to your success to know why you over somebody else? And I have an idea, but I want to get your perspective of like, what do you think you did to get you to this point, or even from getting promoted from inside sales rep to being on the field? Like, what made you stand out above everyone else?

Unknown: 11:50

Yeah, so I think I mean, I think this is just a good question in general as to how to be good at your job. And it's really putting yourself in the other person's shoes, whether it be, you know, I'm a sales rep, and I'm trying to sell to a customer, or I'm a manager, and I'm trying to get my team to sell, I think it's just really putting yourself in their shoes, and having empathy for what they're going through in the challenges that they're facing, and really understanding them, because you're not going to get the output you want without understanding what they need. And I think that, you know, there's this rumor, I guess, or philosophy that salespeople have these egos, and they're greedy, and they're selfish, and they have to, you know, ask for the world to get what they want. And kind of the old used car salesman, very pushy, whenever I find that if you do a lot of listening in your role, you're gonna get the answers that you want, right? So you just have to kind of manage it in that way, right? And ask questions in that way that you basically get the information of what they're struggling with. And then you respond that way. And I found that I've been the most successful by listening to people's problems and coming up with a solution. Right? So it's question and answer. Two ears, one mouth, right?

Claudia Miller: 13:03

Yeah. And how did you do? Or how did you like manage those conversations with your manager? Like, if there was a, I know, you, when you had your first manager, or the first time manager, when there was a switch? How did you have those conversations? So like, if there's some listeners out there saying, Okay, but how do I do that? Like, what do I ask like, how did you even start that? What are some of the tips that you have?

Unknown: 13:25

Yeah, so I mean, I think it's, it's obviously situational, right? But I think kind of it goes back to the question of like, what's keeping you up at night? What's bothering you? And then also, what's your end goal? Like, what do you want to achieve? What do you want to get out of this? What's going to make your job more successful? And once you get that, you can kind of backtrack, right? If you know what the end goal is, you can kind of take steps backwards to figure out what do I need to do to get to that end goal? It's really, you know, what's your current state? What's your desired state? And how do you fill the gaps to get there? And so I think if you kind of start at the end of what's the ultimate goal, what's your million dollar? Ideally you want to have? I think you can kind of get some feedback, and then figure out what steps you need to take to get there.

Claudia Miller: 14:11

Yeah, one of the other things that I recommend sometimes the panga personnel in the relationship you have with your management, sometimes having those conversations with them, kind of like to your point and then asking, you know, how can I help you succeed? And what are some of the biggest areas you would like to see improvement? Or how are you measuring success, so that we kind of have a better understanding, because I feel that sometimes people assume you know, certain things, and there might be, and not all managers are going to be great managers. But it's also like understanding, where's the company looking to go and then where's your manager? Because those can be two different paths. Your manager and the manager can have like a personal agenda and they'll say, oh, this summer measuring success, but when you listen to a company's earnings call, you realize that Whatever they told you is measuring success has nothing to do with that. But yet you are still responsible for a portion of that. So it's like how do you align, how to get that understanding. And like I said, some managers are gonna be great, and they are going to be able to tell you that aligned to the earnings call and what the overall company's trying to do. But that isn't always the case. So it's always important to understand your manager, you know, kind of, what are they looking for? What do they want? How can you help them succeed? Because then they'll become your biggest advocates. But also, where's the company heading to? And how does your role can feed into that, because your manager may not be telling you. But if you're bringing those results in matches what they're trying to achieve as a company, now your manager gets visibility. Now they're happy with, you know, Oh, you did this. This is amazing. I got the visibility, and maybe they'll bring you along with you and provide that visibility to you as well.

Unknown: 15:49

Yeah, and I think you bring up such a good point, Claudia, because I mean, sales, it's pretty cut and dry. I mean, people measure success based on if you meet your number, right, that's as clear as day if you're not doing that you're not doing your job. But I think it's, you know, a good point to say, yeah, maybe you're measuring on this, but what are all the things that they actually need to be doing to make that happen? And how are you measuring that as a manager, so I think it's really important to know, what your manager and what your organization expects from you. And hopefully, that translates to, you know, dollar signs and revenue for the company, and Great Wall Street call or earnings calls, you know, but it's really important to understand some of those things that go into making a sales rep successful or making you just in general, successful. So that's a really good point.

Claudia Miller: 16:41

And I actually wanted to touch more on, you said that for the manager position, and you were doing it before you and you were in the world. And I think that's really important, especially for some, like, if you're a first time manager, or trying to break into management or trying to break into a director role, or whatever that is, it's hard for people to give you a opportunity if they don't know how you're going to perform in that role. They're trying to hire or innovate, they're trying to figure out, Is this the right person? Like, do I want to work with them? Do they seem like they could be a great leader? And second, you know, will they be resource from be able to get the results we're looking for? And it's harder to say that when you don't have experience? So when it came, like for your situation, Jordan, you mentioned you were already doing the role beforehand? Is this something your manager had asked? Is this what the you decided to do? How did that come about?

Unknown: 17:30

Yeah, so I actually have a lot of thoughts around this, right? So first, you have to have a supporter, right? That knows what you want to do. For me, you know, my manager said, Okay, Jordan wants to do this, I'm gonna help her do that by putting her in positions, where she can showcase to other people who have say, and her getting this job that they can see that she's doing this. So one, get yourself a mentor, a champion, a supporter, somebody who's going to basically guide you to do these right things. And it could be your direct manager, it could be somebody else at the company, it could be somebody outside of the company, take on extra projects, right? If you show that you're doing the job, people be like, yeah, that's an easy transition for me to you know, comprehend. And then you know, second, it's so funny, because I think as women and I saw this speaker years ago at one of our conferences, and she was a female fighter jet pilot, and she was one of the only females right. And so she went on to talk about her experience in a male dominated industry. And she said, Men will go for promotions, if they think that there's an 80% chance that they could do the job successfully. And I'm just making up numbers and kind of it was well under 100%, or is like 50% 80%, something like that.

Claudia Miller: 18:46

I think the status 60%?

Unknown: 18:48

Yes. So it was like, Oh, well, I can kind of do the job, I think I'll go for it. And respectfully so right, it shouldn't be harder than your current job. And women, on the other hand, have to be over 100% confident that they can do that job. And I was for sure in that camp. I was, you know, there's no way I can do that job unless I'm already doing it. And I know that I'm going to be, you know, 200% successful at doing this. Because failure to me is not an option, right. And, you know, I can't go into something thinking, Oh, I might be good at this, I have to know I'm going to be good at it. So kind of having that guidance beforehand. And having my manager at the time, let me do some of the things like running team calls and getting the team's forecast and leading other team members to build large deals. Those are the kinds of things we do in the sales world. He let me lead some of those ahead of time. And so, you know, that was really helpful in building my own confidence and then also helping build confidence in all of the other managers who would have a say in my promotion. So I think that's probably most of what goes into it. And yeah, it's a little bit different for us women in this industry in any endeavor. Free, really and knowing that you're good enough for that promotion.

Claudia Miller: 20:03

Yeah. And to that point, too, is you want to make sure you have someone within the company internally. And it's also good to have a mentor outside the company as well. But especially in China, like you said, they're going to be mentioning your names when you're not there. When they're creating the org chart, they can say, Well, why not? Why don't we bring in Jordan, she'll be great. She's already with a company they're advocating for you. It's almost like you are having someone's like in PR, public relations really advertising you when you're not there, especially when they're at a higher level, because they tend to be more like an executive boards, or it's a little bit more private. So you want to make sure that you start building those relationships and identifying them. And, you know, the other thing that you really mentioned too, like with job descriptions, I tell my clients that if you fit 30 to 40%, start applying. I mean, I've had times lamb rolls and being very successful. One of the things I show them, too is like once you move into the rural, how do you how do you become an expert and be able to get results within 3060 90 days and focus on what really matters and not just busy work? All right. The other thing is job descriptions, I actually was looking at a stat and 61% of employees say that what they're currently doing is very different than what was told to them during the interview process, or in the job description. So take job descriptions with a grain of salt. And you know, one of the things too, I would recommend is, let's just say like, currently, you're looking already to your, you already moved into your regional sales manager role. Let's just say you want to go into VP of sales, now that you just moved into your job started looking at VP of sales job description and start seeing like, what is it that you have and don't have, because now you have, you know, five to six plus years to build out those skill sets, instead of being in a situation where you're trying to make that jump not and all of a sudden, you realize you have none of that. And now you're going to try to figure out how you're going to get that experience immediately within the next few months. So that's just any advice out there for anyone that can help you really do it in time, if you need to take more certifications. Some rules may require an MBA, when now you know, like, if you do your research, while it looks like I need to have an MBA, I can take a part time and take more classes per semester. And within five, six years, I'll be done with it. And that also acquired all these skill sets. So that's exactly why I want to move into that VP role. So you can take it with time and ease and not having to you know, pull the trigger and all of a sudden figure out that now you need to spend another two years in your world trying to acquire these skills just to get to the next level. Yeah,

Unknown: 22:32

but gotta be thinking a few steps ahead for sure.

Claudia Miller: 22:35

Exactly. So Jordan, what tips do you have for someone out there that maybe are trying to break into the first management role? And then maybe, you know, how do they position themselves to be one of the top, you know, employees within the company, because you you've been doing it multiple times. And like I mentioned Sharda, went on maternity leave for a few months, came back. And she was still with the number one. But the company even though she wasn't working for a few months while she was taking care of her baby and everything. So just give us a little bit more perspective. And like three tips that you have out there for some of our listeners. Yeah, I

Unknown: 23:10

mean, I can't take full credit, right, I had a lot of help while I was out. And I was very fortunate to work for a company that really respects you know, family time, right, and things like that. So it's not only the women that get paid maternity leave, it's the men as well, which is a whole nother topic I'm really passionate about. But I digress on that. But I mean, it's all about, I guess working smart, right? And figuring out for me, you know, we went through this process, well, how much? How many deals are you doing? How many deals how many customers are you meeting with, and I would always be at the bottom of the list? Well, I'm only meeting with five when all of my peers would be like I'm meeting with 25. And what I found was, I'm just gonna go really big in those five accounts. And I'm going to be the best in those five accounts. And I'm going to make sure I spent all of my time getting as high up in that organization as I can, in all of my time making sure that they understand everything that we do here at our company and how that fits into what their business needs are. And so I really focused on that. And that's what I'm trying to get, you know, my new team to think about too, right? And, and it's really good because you figure out the ins and outs of specific businesses instead of just scratching the surface on all of these, you know, different industries, different customers, there will be time for that later, right? You focus on being really good at your job and all of the things that your job requires with just a couple of accounts, right? And so it's a little cliche to say but working smart means you don't have to hustle as much and for me, that was critical because I was out for a third of the year. And I really needed to make sure that I was focused on where I was going to make my money that year how I was going to make Citrix successful that year. And you know, of course I had help along the way while I was out To keep things afloat while I was gone, you know, but at the end of the day, when I came back, we picked right up where we left off. And, you know, I was able to my deal that I did while I was gone, you know, two years sales cycle, it was highlighted on our wall street earnings call. And it was an impressive win by all of the teams involved. And, you know, all of the support we had at the customer level to but you know, I would just say, focus on working smart, get yourself a champion at your customer, or whoever you're, you know, working with, if they're on board with your vision, and your team's on board with your vision. It's easy, right? I'm making one look easy, right?

Claudia Miller: 25:41

Right. So there's a strategy, there's that mentorship that can really accelerate your career that can give me the opportunities, like you mentioned, you needed to lead team meetings or do forecasting? Well, he gave me the opportunity to do that. But also is because you communicated that with them. Some people just say, I got passed up for a promotion. And I'll ask, okay, well, how did your conversation go with your manager when you told them about your interest in that promotion? Oh, I never told him or her. Okay, so you, we assumed that they knew that you wanted a promotion. So it's always best, I always say like, hope is not a strategy. And don't assume, because then you make an blank out of yourself. So make sure you have those conversations, everyone's on board, there's no doubt that you want that promotion, or you want to move to the next step. Where are some activities or work that you can do that can help you build those skills, if you don't have it, to really showcase that you're really serious about the role you're willing to invest, you're willing to learn and that you're teachable. And you're putting yourself off to increase increasing that visibility for you. But Jordan, I mean, it was a pleasure having you on your show, thank you so much for, you know, sharing your advice, your journey, some strategies and tactics, some of the listeners can use to help them you know, accelerate their careers or break into management. If they wanted to reach out to you where can they find you?

Unknown: 27:04

Yeah, so I'm not a super big blogger, but I am on LinkedIn, I keep all of my professional connections via LinkedIn. So please do reach out to me. If you have questions. Also, I'm hiring in the Chicagoland market. So I'll plug for myself. Of course, overall, what we're also hiring for. So there's a couple roles at Citrix available right now. Specifically, I'm looking to backfill my own role. So the Chicagoland market, individual contributor, so a Field Sales Manager. Yeah, and I mean, we've got people anywhere from, you know, two years experience to 30 years experience. So all experience Welcome. I'm open to it. And you know, just want to see what's out there. So a little plug for me. So thanks. Okay.

Claudia Miller: 27:48

Well, you heard I mean, this isn't like, this is what I say when it helps a lot with your job search. You heard Jordan, she told you where to find her how to connect with her what role she's looking for. So that way you when you go connect with her on LinkedIn, you can say, Hey, Jordan, by the way, I heard your interview robot to the executive suite. It was great. I learned so much from me, I will love to connect. You know, I have a background in sales. And I would like to, you know, help get on a call with you for 2030 minutes and really learn more about the company itself and what you're looking for. I look forward to connecting. And then obviously, Jordan, you know, can see like, Okay, you're not just sending out an invite with no note. I'm like, Okay, I know where they've heard from me. I know what they're interested in. There's no fakeness there's no, let me pick your brain because then Jordans, like pick my brain about what I'm a mom, I have a life. I now have this new role. I have a team like I don't have time for pick my brain. But if you're concrete, you're to the point and she knows exactly what it is that you're looking for. She's more likely to be able to help you and connect with you and speak with you. I hope everyone found this helpful. This was a great interview, Jordan says thanks again. And I look forward to you know to the next episode.

Unknown: 28:59

Yeah. Next one, I'll be VP of sales. So

Claudia Miller: 29:02

yeah, we're definitely going to bring you in for sure.

Unknown: 29:06

All right. Thanks, Claudia. Thanks for listening. And if you liked this episode, you can go to our website roadmap to the executive suite.com For show notes and sign up to get alerts. All new episodes will be posted every Thursday. Talk to you next week.