Empowering Women in Salary Negotiations: A Special International Women’s Day Episode

Unknown: 0:07

This is roadmap to executive suite podcast, a place where we talk about accelerating your careers and how to get to the C suite, all tailored to the ambitious woman. We're here to have fun, feel empowered and get actionable steps to get you closer to your dream job and salary, no matter where you are in your career. I'm your host, Claudia Miller, and I'm a career coach who helps ambitious women get the jobs they want, all while getting them up to$50,000. In salary increases. I've been featured in Forbes, MSNBC, and a one of the top 23 Most Innovative career coaches of 2025. Business Insider. Welcome to the show. And let's get started.

Claudia Miller: 0:44

Hi, today is Women's International month, yay. And then today, I have Karla, we actually joined forces. And we wanted to do a special segment since again, it's Women's International month. And we wanted to do something special and provide more value to women out there, especially during COVID. Which, you know, I don't know if you've seen like the data out there, but women have been the most affected during COVID, especially with job losses. And in December alone, women accounted for 100% of job losses. So that's over 140,000 women lost their jobs in December due to COVID. And not only that, you know, I was reading an article too. And this is like even as of September, over 165,000, women dropped the workforce because of COVID. So we really want to be able to dedicate a segment to those women out there that not only have you been laid off, but maybe you're looking to change jobs, because maybe where your work is toxic, or you're ready to move to next steps, we really want to focus today's episode on, you know, how can we help you get back in the job force, especially, you know, talk about salary negotiation, because you can still negotiate your salary, even when you're job searching. And I think that's actually the perfect time to really discuss that. So I'm happy to have you back on the show. Carla,

Karla Carrion: 2:03

thank you so much for having me back. Glad to be here.

Claudia Miller: 2:06

Yeah, no, definitely. So, you know, one thing that you mentioned before you even started recording is like really talking about salary negotiation. You tell me from your perspective, your recruiter, you hire multiple people, for multiple industries from entry level all the way to the executive like CFOs. And you interview both men and women. So you know, tell me like, What do you see typically, when it happens to salary negotiation?

Karla Carrion: 2:31

So definitely, when we are negotiating salary, typically, I will always have, you know, male candidates that will negotiate salary, even when I submit, you know, every single time when I submit a candidate, I will clear that candidate on a specific number. So, you know, just to pick an easy number. So you're looking, you'd be happy if they were to make an offer 80,000. That's what you're looking for. Right? Yes, Carla, I'd be so happy. Okay, and I will submit the candidate 80,000. Once the offer comes back, I will have more male candidates tell me, Oh, can we do more than that? Can we do like 83,000? don't negotiate with me at that point. You know, so men will definitely negotiate for their salary. However, with women, when I'm speaking with, with a lot of women, they're really not negotiating their salary. They're really the ones that are telling me like, well, you know, well, what does this job offer? And I'd be happy with that. And I'm asking them probing them know, well, you have great experience, like, tell me, what is the number that you're looking for? Like, what are you looking for? You know, I'm not looking to, I'm looking to find the perfect opportunity for you. So tell me, what is it number three? Well, I just don't want to price myself out. They're so shy to just give a number. And then of course, we'll have to go through the whole situation of like, okay, let's talk about your experience. Let's talk about the market. And let's see where your experience lies at the market. And let's see exactly what the market is saying. Your ask number should be. But with men, I really don't have a lot of those discussions, because men already know they, you know, they already know that they're going to ask for a number. And if they get it, they will ask for more. So that's kind of been my experience.

Claudia Miller: 4:11

Yeah, one thing I remember this is like a form of friend that actually had visibility to like what people were making, and it was crazy. So she was talking about two VPS. One is a man one is a woman, they are both at the VP level within the company, same background, similar education, but the guy negotiated his salary. So he got a salary of like 240,000 for his VP role. And when she looked at the woman who was in the VP role, she figured she probably make around the same. When she looked at her salary, she was making 180,000 similar role. She didn't negotiate and, you know, she was there during those conversations. They also tended to offer her less than they offered the male counterpart. So I mean, like even with statistics A lot of us have heard, you know, women make 70 cents on the dollar. But, you know, I was looking at research, actually. And there was updated research from 2018, where it shows a little bit more, we have improved, they have increased our pay, but it's still nowhere near that equal amount where a Caucasian man gets paid $1. And just to give some of the listeners a little bit of background, basic research done in 2018, by Pew Research said that Hispanic women make 58 cents on the dollar. African American women make 65 cents on the dollar, Caucasian women make 82 cents on the dollar, and Asian women make 87 cents on that dollar. So Caucasian male will make $1 a woman still making less than $1 for the same type of work that you know, their counterparts are doing. So

Karla Carrion: 5:49

a woman of color, it's even that number, that gap, that disparity is even greater.

Claudia Miller: 5:55

And I feel like sometimes when we're talking about salary negotiation, you know, people are like worried like, they're gonna pull away the offer, they think you're greedy. But honestly, we already know you're being underpaid. They're probably offering you're already on the lower side. So don't be afraid to ask for that additional income or salary. They offer you at ask for 95,000 as far 100,000, you know, reference like your expertise, what they're looking for, to really, really increase that number. I kind of like what you talked on the last segment Carly's like having a conversation, the recruiter is there to be your advocate. Now, I will say again, there's a caveat, where we care for like who the recruiter is to, you know, one of the other recruiters we had in our segment, they said that their loyalty is towards the client, like who there are. But someone like a recruiter like Carla, it's in her best interest to to get you the most money because she gets paid out more money. Everybody wins. So, you know, you want to make sure that you have that discussion with your recruiter and tell them like, you know, what is this salary range paying for? Am I within this range? You know, what were some other tactics you were talking about? Carla?

Karla Carrion: 7:01

So definitely talk with your recruiter. And the other thing, I think that this is even before you talk to the recruiter, do your homework, do your research. We live in the age of information, where you can just Google Director of Finance, salary Chicago, do your research, go through the glass door, go through the salary.com speak with someone that maybe isn't a similar position to that speak with them. Hey, I would love your guidance. I'm interviewing for these types of roles. What do you recommend? What do you see in your position? What does the market say in regards to the salaries? Do your research? Because definitely a recruiters managers we all know that right? Now, the candidate has the most information than they've ever had before, you know, back in the day, a long time before the internet or before Glassdoor or salary. I mean, it was much easier for you know, for a client to kind of, you know, pull one on you. And you know, as the position was offered$100,000, they probably you know, but if you wanted to 80,000? Because they will Yeah, well, they really don't know any better. We're the experts, we are the subject matter expert, and we know what the market is paid by now, there are so many websites just so many, there's Indeed, indeed has a great sort of like, salary calculator. So does LinkedIn. LinkedIn has a great I love that one after the other like my go to. Glassdoor has great information because they do have actual salaries from people that that actual company. So with that information, that's what you should consider your experience, you should consider that information. If you want to continue to have those discussions, talk with your recruiter see what they recommend and what they say. Talk to them. Hey, you know, Carla, I saw that on Glassdoor they're offering actually this amount, talked with your recruiter and she will help you figure that number out what's the best number for you, that's going to make you competitive because of course, your recruiter she wants you to get the job, but she's not going to at least me I'm not going to price my candidate out, right? I want my candidate to get the job. So I will come up with a strategy. Okay, let's look at all your research. What are you looking for? What do you want? And let's come up with a number that makes sense for you. But that would be my number one thing is to do your research. It's out there. All that information is out there.

Claudia Miller: 9:22

Yeah, I know. I was looking at also built in. There's have the built in New York City built in Chicago, but they have a salary feature as well. And I know Angel List not to be confused with Angie's List, but angel list is a job board for tech jobs or jobs in startups. And it actually tells you like the salary they're willing to pay as well as equity or bonus structures or stock that you can get within the company itself. So that again, gives you a little bit more visibility and kind of like Carla said reaching out to people who are in those roles or even going one or two levels above whether it's a director or senior director. Ask any you know, I'm interested in these industry, I'm looking to pivot into this role. I know you did this a few years ago, I would love to get your expertise and feedback. And then one of the questions is, you know, typically for this range, like, what does that salary range look like? And is there other compensation or benefits that are part of this no comp structure? And they might say, yeah, actually, we, for this role, it's common to be like 80, to 100,000. But you also get a 10% bonus. And, you know, typically, we work for like fortune 500 companies, or, you know, public companies that are out there, they'll give you some stock options as well. Or they might have like a 10, you know,$15,000 bonus or something along those lines. So all of a sudden, you're getting this research, and that's a little bit more closer, as opposed to like, 50,000 gap, where like, I feel like last year you do research, it'll say, this job pays between 50,000 and 120,000. And you're like, Alright, so where do I fall

Karla Carrion: 10:53

in? Right? It's such a wide gap. Yeah. And that's going to be very powerful when you do go into negotiating your salary, because not only do you have a knowledge of your background and what you bring to the table, but now you also have this real life market research as well, that's going to make a really strong arguments for you, so that you could get the salary that you want, and that you're deserving.

Claudia Miller: 11:19

Yeah. And, you know, one thing that I wanted to mention too, is like, if you're applying internally, also, when you create your case for like, sound negotiation, never make it about anyone else, but yourself. So what I mean by that is, don't say your peer makes more money. Or say, Hey, I reserve a raise, because I'm a hard worker, and I do my job. Because they can easily say, well, that's why we hired you, you shouldn't be doing your job, you shouldn't be a hard worker, you shouldn't be a teamwork person. Or don't worry about Jane or John Joe, because they actually negotiate their salary, or did you know they had the certification, and all of a sudden, you're disarmed. And it all it changes the power of who is in command during that conversation. But instead, you want to talk more about like, Hey, I just wanted to discuss, you know, the work that I've done in my past achievements and my experiences that I had within this role for the past 12 months, and you want to make sure you're prepared for it, then you do your research, like Carla said, like, you want to keep inventory of all the work and projects that you've worked on. Because I can bet you anything that any person does not remember what they did four months ago, I don't even remember what I did a month ago, I would have to go to my calendar. And that would only give me so much input, I wouldn't even be able to, you know, say everything that I did within that month or anything beforehand. So you always want to have like a running list of like achievements, projects that you worked on, who was part of it? Did you work cross functionally? Who was part of that team? You know, how many people in total did it take? Why did this project start? What was the result? What would you do differently? Because all of that is knowledge. And then if you don't remember what you did four or five months ago, let alone a year ago, your managers not he trusts me. Your arguments.

Karla Carrion: 13:03

Yeah, your activity, that's going to be your argument. You know, this kind of reminds me of a couple years ago, you know, in my career, when I was first starting off, I didn't negotiate my salary. And I just accepted the salary that was on my offer letter. And I was happy. It was definitely more money than what I was making. And also, I thought that it was a good salary. Because this particular company, they were being flexible with me, I was still in college at this time. And they were allowing me to literally go to class and then walk to my job. So they were allowing me to kind of make my own schedule. And so I thought it was good. And I was getting bonuses too. So I thought it was good. And then one day, I was working there for a couple of years. And one day I went to the printer to go pick up a resume that it printed, I was getting ready for an interview, pick up the entire stack of papers. And I'm looking for my printer. And then I see my colleagues paste us, she printed it. And I was like oh, I immediately like turned it around. But I saw the number already. And this was somebody that was hired after me, someone that I trained, and definitely someone that I was mentoring. And I just couldn't believe it. It was nearly like $18,000 more on salary than what I was making. So I was immediately like, shocked. I was like, oh my god, like what is if I just put it back? And I went to my feet, and I was looking at the resume and no way could I focus on the resume anymore. Now I'm like, Okay, I definitely need to ask for a raise. Like I've been here longer. I've told myself, I've been raised at the top recruiter for like many, many months, and it's been a couple of years that it's been trending that way like I need to go right now and talk about this. And that's exactly what I did. You know, I didn't tell my boss like, you know, someone still makes more money than me. And I think that is just, you know, it's not fair. I did not mention the other person and what they made more money, because she was a badass recruiter too. She was really, really good at what she was doing. She was amazing. So I wasn't gonna mention the other person. But in fact, it was all about me. And I took the confrontation. And I said, Hey, this will be amount of numbers of the amount of sales I've had the my average of bills that I've had, this is the amount of time that I've been ranked another top recruiters in the division. Remember when you got to go on a trip because your division which I was included in and remember, it was ranking like everyone on the telephone, it was a lot of live work that was put into that, like, all of this, right? That's what I went to go speak with my manager and my manager who definitely was shocked when I brought the conversation. He was like, okay, but you know, all that work that I did, he couldn't deny it. So eventually, you know, this is what ended up happening. Eventually, I did not get my raise. I did leave a company. However, I did not get my raise. And I remember they strung me along for like six months, telling me, okay, yes, Carla, you're doing an amazing job. But you know what, we're gonna wait until the year and we're gonna wait until the year on when budgets are new. And I promise you, you're doing such an amazing job. And I never got it. But at least at that time, that was my form of negotiating. I know that my manager that he was definitely had to think about it, right. But at the end of the day, the biggest lesson for me was like, You know what this company is just like some a company that really doesn't appreciate me. So I did get that out of it at the end. And then I moved on to another company where I was able to where I didn't negotiate my salary. And I was much happier, I will say,

Claudia Miller: 16:47

it was actually like research, like 60% of women don't negotiate their salary. And then kind of like, to your point, like, it becomes a choice that you make you negotiate your salary, you went and advocated for yourself. Now, you can't always control your employer where they're currently in maybe the last thing accounts or whatever. They said, No, but again, that becomes your choice, do you decide to stay there, and know that it's gonna be an uphill battle, even when the time came for urine reviews, he's still gonna give it to you, knowing that your counterparts or colleagues are making more than you are not even performing at the level you're at? Or are you going to take that decision and go somewhere else where you will be appreciated and be paid what you're worth? So like, I understand there's some toxic, I had a client actually recently called me and she's like, I just can't believe it. I'm scared to ask for $10,000 more, and I asked her, How much are you making? And I was like, do you know you're actually making$40,000? Less, so I don't know why you're, I get why you're nervous. But she I'm like, if you're gonna be nervous, ask for the $40,000 Extra, because that's how you're being underpaid. And I know this, because I work with multiple clients. And when I work with my clients, they give me their offer. So I go through that with them. And I'll say, here's what they're offering you, here's what the market pays. This is what you should ask, you should also ask for this. And did you take into account a XY and Z and all these other benefits? But I mean, it's very common. And then, you know, I was in the situation where they wouldn't promote me. They're like, Well, you haven't been in your role long enough, which was close to like three years at that point. And, you know, when I was in my role, I was there for 10 years before I got promoted. And I was like, I don't know what you did wrong, or whatever, it takes 10 years. And that was, of course, like a different time and era where it was normal for you to stay within the same company for 2030 years. But that's no longer the norm. It's fast changing, and I made a decision, I'm going to take control of my career, my bosses didn't want to promote me, they think that I should be in this role for like, 510 years before I can get promoted. That's fine. But that no longer serves my purpose. And I went and look for another job. So if you're in that same position, I get it, not every person is going to give you that salary increase. But you have to make that choice. Do you still want to stay there? And some of us complain, like, Oh, my God, I hate it here. They don't appreciate me but we don't do anything. Or you can do the other thing in is taking control of it, look for the job that will pay you what you're worth, that will give you the appreciation and be able to you know, like Jimmy is what you pay me is also out of respect to you respect me enough as a counterpart because you're more than happy to pay that salary to you know, this person why I'm so doing the same amount of work, why am I getting paid less for that, then, if you want, I could do half the work. I mean, you already pay me half the salary.

Karla Carrion: 19:39

Exactly. You know, and I think that that's really important for women to understand is that we have options. You know, I think that it happens a lot where women are sometimes this mess. Like for example, in my example, you know, I was for six months, my manager kept telling me, yeah, we're working on it. We're working on it. Okay, just wait until until the year ends when our blood Just there's going to be new. And in our conversations, he promised me that Ray is going to promise me that race, like, yes, we're going to get it just wait until their budgets are new. And it happens like this, to so many women, you know, in so many different fields, that you know, you're going to be promoted. But if you do this, you're going to be, you know, it just happens so much, we have options, especially if the market is saying that the average is 100,000. And you're getting paid, you know, 75,000. Honey, if you apply, if you put your resume out there, you probably will get the average. So, exactly. So sometimes, it's just as easy as that just putting yourself out there, you know, I heard a great quote, that says, you know, a ship is safest in the harbor, right? But is the ship meant to be in the harbor? No, take that risk, go out there, explore the world, go out there, explore your other options, you know, sometimes, you know, the employer that you're in, you know, you may have your loyalty to them. And sometimes, you know, they may have showed you loyalty in other ways, right? Like, for example, maybe, you know, they allow you to come in late, you know, because you're, you're dropping off your kids, and maybe they allow you to leave a little bit early, because you have to pick up your kids. That's okay, there are definitely a lot of employers in the world that will still do that. And then on top of that, they will have that flexibility with you and still pay you what you're worth.

Claudia Miller: 21:21

No, I totally agree. And even kind of like what you said, like, you know, I was really that women would rather go to another job and get paid more than negotiate their salary. And there will be employers out there. So and, you know, women would rather go into a new job, then ask for that salary negotiation, or that salary increase, but honestly, if, you know, I say, go and negotiate your salary, even ask for an extra 510 K. You know, most companies spend more on like toilet paper than that 10k increase. And usually companies always make sure that you're doing more work than what they're paid. So for example, if you're getting paid 50,000, you are probably bringing in at least you may not know it for you're managing or bringing the company, at least 100,000 They're not going to pay you just to get does doesn't make business sense. Trust me, I'm a business owner. And I've worked with people and they'll say, like, even salespeople, they'll bring in a million dollars, but they're making 100,000. That's how most other jobs work true. So don't be afraid to ask for that 1015 20 $30,000 An increase? If they say no, that's okay. You know, you still keep your job, and then you make a choice. Do you want to stay here? Or you want to go elsewhere? And

Karla Carrion: 22:34

if they say, No, don't stop the conversation there. Okay, can we come with a plan? What do I need to do in order to get to that raise? Is there another benchmark I need to reach? Is it let's can we schedule a timeline for us to meet again, to have this to reopen this conversation? Don't don't just stop it there. Go ahead and set the parameters. Okay. Like you're deserving of the raise, if you are deserving of the raise, and you know, that you want to you know, that, you know, maybe you're underpaid, right? You know, that you want to negotiate the salary, that they tell you no, don't have the conversation there unless you want to, unless you're stringing along for six months, and then the, the salary that they promised you, you didn't get it, then that's when you say, Well, I'm sorry, I gotta leave. But if you still want to stay, right, go ahead and keep the conversation going and let them know, let's revisit this at a later time. Let's put it on our calendar for next quarter, or whatever it may be.

Claudia Miller: 23:30

When I feel like it's really it's not funny, but it just astonishes me. I had a client where they were doing an interim director position. So they were doing their role plus interim director for almost a year. They kept say, we're trying to find the rug, we're trying to find the budget. And then they started the application process. And then, you know, I think they attended like over eight interviews, even though they already worked internally. And then they said they had to put a halt on it. And I mean, it was just being strung along. And they found another job. And they had like a$40,000 salary increase. And then when they brought it up, like put the resignation, they're like, Oh, we don't want you to leave, like what do we need to give you? And we'll give you the title Do you want the title will give you the salary? How much are they paying, you were willing to like match that offer. And they could have just done that a year ago, even like three months beforehand, and they would have kept that person which obviously, they were valued by the company. But now that person was just burned, and they were like, I'd rather just leave like I don't appreciate how was treated I don't appreciate this. And the fact that you can make that happen so quickly that now you can give me the title. Now you can give me the salary increase. It's almost embarrassing that at that point, just run as fast as you can from that company. Because those are horrible either, not only the company itself, but just horrible management, like who are these people that you know are stringing you along making you double the work and then of course it takes a toll on your mental health and you know, outside activities and just overall life for them to be able to resolve that in like, a second. Yeah.

Karla Carrion: 25:07

And that's how sometimes happens. But I think that, you know, especially for like women, right, it's really important to voice. Right? What you're saying to voice what you're thinking, hey, like, you know, if you're a deserving of more money, go for it. Like, don't I feel that a lot of women like even in interviews, they're still reserved, because a lot of women, you know, even in interviewing, not even at the negotiating salary phase, but even in interviews, a woman will say, you know, what, when I was part of this team, we executed this plan, we implemented these processes, we were successful with, you know, this account, whatever may be right, and then the difference about how a man will answer, you know, that question how America will express, you know, their career experiences, I did this, I implemented this process, I implemented, you know, this procedure, and I was successful. Right. And so there's a difference with the Wii, and the I, and I have told, you know, that perhaps my candidates, I've only had to do this with women. Right, I have prep candidates who are total hate, when you're describing when you're doing your synopsis, or you're doing you're describing your experience, don't say we, you're talking about you, this is an interview about you. So talk about you, I did this, I was successful in this, I implemented this, I executed this, talk about that, because what ends up happening is and actually what's happened is, I've had managers tell me, you know, she was great during the interview, you know, at the very beginning, I could feel like, you know, she has the experience, but it was kind of big. I don't know if she did this, like what part she took in her team where they executed that, like, I don't know, what was her part in that? You know, maybe she wasn't the executor. Maybe she was the one it was just following the instructions. Maybe, you know, it's just so big. Well, a man was like, No, I did this, I booked the company in the world and the moon in the stars,

Claudia Miller: 27:02

three months, and I even designed and engineered it and laid all the bricks.

Karla Carrion: 27:06

Yeah, exactly. So even in the interview phase, women are so much more reserved, to brag about themselves, to talk about their accomplishments, men aren't. So if you are shy during the interview phase, then trust me, you're going to be reserved and shy during the negotiating phase. And you know, during the negotiating phase, that's probably going to be the most important negotiation that you'll have, because you don't want to be underpaid. So this is like kind of an analogy, it's easier to start from the top and work your way down, than to start from the bottom and try to climb up. It's a lot harder to do that. So if you did not negotiate your salary, at the beginning of the interview, or during the negotiating offer phase, if you cannot negotiate your salary there, you're struggling a little, it's going to be a lot harder for you in your career in that job with that company to continue to climb up with that salary. So that's why my recommendation always start high. Start high, you want to make $80,000 Tell them you want to make 8586, close to 90, start high, it's easier for them to meet you at a number that you're still going to be comfortable with. But if you start at if you're telling, you know, well, I just want to be matched, I would be happy with what I'm making out $80,000 They're gonna say, well, well offer 78. And then when he comes, yeah, and that money come. So don't be shy. Well, I

Claudia Miller: 28:34

was gonna say it's also with perception. What cost Mart must be more valuable. I mean, some of us I mean, I like designer purses. Now if I see a $10,000 Chanel bag or a$10 dollar bag or $1 bag, whatever it purrs, I'm gonna say, Well, I gotta take really good care of this 10,000 Chanel bag. It's just, I mean, it's pricey. It's valuable. It's probably handmade and real leather and all these things, I tend to value that more. And I don't try to negotiate with Chanel and be like, can I get this for like, 300? It's like, no, no, no. Same thing with like, people, like, if I'm hiring for whatever role, and you know, you're coming in at a higher one, well, then you must be bringing more value. Like I'm already valuing you more as an employee before I even start, as opposed to someone like, I'll take anything. I mean, yeah, I'd be happy. Thank you so much. And it's like what, like, it changes your perception, you want to be considered a high valuable employee, candidate colleague, then start asking for that salary. Don't wait to say, well, I'll need to pay my dues so that way, they can respect me and value me that doesn't always happen. You have to do that first for yourself, and then they will see that value. So don't be afraid to ask for that, you know, small increase. And even like with job descriptions, I was also reading a stat that that I'm starting I just ordered the book recommended by a friend how Women raise or women raising or something. And it talked about I looked up some research that on average, women feel like they have to fit 100% of the job description to apply when a man only needs to have 60% of that. And honestly, I think it's even less. So like, do you want that to be true or like was that when you interviewed candidates or women tend to be like, fit everything were men, you're like, you don't even have experience on this. Like, why are you interviewing?

Karla Carrion: 30:30

Yeah, that is definitely interesting. You know what, I don't think I can really think of a situation where I have thought about that, like, Oh, my God, all the guys that apply are like, not qualified, right? I haven't thought about that. But I do know that that definitely, when I'm presenting the job to a candidate, like if there's a candidate that I'm working with, right, more than likely there is yeah, actually happened this week. One of my candidates, she's a woman. And this was her senior accounting opportunity. She's got over 10 years of experience closer to like 16 years of experience. She was seen as a senior accountant. Anyways, I sent her the job description I you know, we spoke about the opportunity doesn't Hey, but I want you to look at it kind of black and white, the JavaScript, Java has some information about the company that I think would be interesting. She reads it. And then she called me back. She was a pilot, I don't think I'm qualified. Like they're saying that they want this and they want, you know, this requirement, and I don't have that. And then I'm like, No, you're reading way. Like, trust me, like you are qualified. You have the experience if necessary. But I've never had a man tell me that I've never had a man say, Yeah, well, I know. I mean, I have this, but you'll be able to vouch for me, right? Like a man is much more confident and saying like, Yeah, I mean, I set it to like a tee the job description, right? But but you'll be able to vouch for me. But you know, one thing that I think is so important, you know, to kind of consider is culture. And also with women of color, a lot of us have been told especially I know that being Latina, there's a stain as a gay visa, the need of marketable needs that which means the quieter you are, the less you speak, the cuter you are. And you know, that definitely is I feel that with a lot of women, especially women of color, and even make it happen, I can speak from my own experience. When I'm, you know, applying for a job, right? When I'm interviewing for a job, I tend to be more modest, or I used to be much more modest, I should say, used to be much more modest. And I have seen that with other women of color where they're like, I really don't know, like, I just want to work my way up, because that's definitely what our parents have taught us as we came to this country, so that you can find a good job. And this is how you get success. If you work, work, work, show them that you can do a good job, and it's going to be recognized. But the reality is that yeah, you know, we all are recognized for our work. They definitely, you know, that does happen that way. But definitely for us, since we are especially Latinas, we are paid so much less than men are so much less than other women are paid. We definitely need to go ahead and put this like step into the world with confidence step into the world, like we are enough and step into the world thinking like you know, what were my parents told me or whatever, my grandmother told me that I should stay quiet, no, go it up the garbage. Don't think about that anymore. Step into the world and really know what you're worth really know that the work that you can do, and do your research and go out there and really like ask for what you're worth. That's really important. And that's going to help us kind of close this disparity that we have within men and women and especially men and Latinos, or men and African American women and the you know, every all the women of color that are being paid severely less.

Claudia Miller: 33:49

Yeah, sorry, things like, continent point, if you see a job description, and if you fit every single thing, you're overqualified. So I will say even rule of thumb CMP 50%. And the other 50% can be learned every company is so different, that they might even say like, oh, everything you learned, please don't learn it. Because here in this company, we do things differently. Here we use these processes or these systems are this is the way that we do things. So never be afraid, like oh, there's, if you fit everything, like I said, you need to look for another role that's above because you're already overqualified. Your next role should be a learning experience, something that you're gaining from, you're getting more expertise, maybe you're managing bigger account, you're living different processes. It should be adding value to your career, not just keeping you in status quo,

Karla Carrion: 34:38

or at the same level, and then

Claudia Miller: 34:41

negotiate your salary. All your other counterparts are doing it. I mean, you deserve to do it to it. You already been underpaid. So just ask for those extra you know, 1000s of dollars because at least maybe you'll get that's how we get closer to getting paid that dollar because we need to ask for it. They're not going to give it to us sometimes But he's made, you know, there are more equal opportunity. They've done a lot of assessment. It's so rare to find those companies. But you need to ask for it too. So yes, give yourself that raise.

Karla Carrion: 35:10

You know, I had a friend, she's Latina. And she told me that. So she negotiated her salary after she got hired. And she was one of those people that accepted what they offered her. I mean, it was with a very large and well known and respected marketing firm here in Chicago, very, very big. She was just happy to be there, happy to have that name behind her. And oh, my god, she was so excited for all the opportunities. Anyways, she went out with her team. And she made really, really great friends with some of the girls there that were not, you know, they were Caucasian, they were not Latina. Anyways, you know, they all started to talk about work and all of that, and started to form allies, right. And then one of the outings one of the they started to talk about their pay, like employees, they will talk, right, they started talking about their pay, she found that she was being severely underpaid, like, very underpaid compared to all the other people on her team. And because she was kind of feeling bad about it. And actually, those other women, they empowered her and they were like, You need to go out there and ask for more money. Now, this blew my mind. She had a really good ally there that went to their manager and said, You know, I'm making a lot more money. And Carmen is and this was another woman. She was Caucasian. She said, you know, Carmen is the minority in our group. And she is making severely less money than I'm being paid and the rest of the team, you know, we want to, I wanted to bring that to your attention, because it's not right, like, we need to pay her equally. Right, because that blew my mind, Young Women Helping Women. And that's how she got her raise. That's how my friend told me how she got her raise. And it was amazing. And that's like, the other thing is, like, you know, like, Women Helping Women sometimes, you know, your manager will say, No, even if you accomplish, you know, a million amazing things at their company, and they made millions of dollars off of you. They may say no, right? But sometimes, if there are other hands in the pot like accounting, you being an ally, and just doing the good for the cause. That's also another way that they need to be able to get that raise.

Claudia Miller: 37:30

Yeah, that's amazing story that I've never heard that before. So that's amazing.

Karla Carrion: 37:35

Me too, when she told me, I was like, what? And we had a couple of pro days actually talking about she was like, we were having the same conversation. And she was telling me she's like, Carlos, what can you tell like women that like, are scared to negotiate their salary? And also like the specific way she was asking you about Latina women? Because there is sometimes like that fear of like, oh, no, like, I don't know what it is that they just like, in the culture, were often told to like, just say that don't draw so much attention to yourself and just do your job, you do a good job, they're going to notice you, right? But the truth is that you don't get noticed. If you don't speak up, you get noticed when you speak up. So we were literally having a conversation. And when she told me she was like, Well, you know, I have to tell you from your business, I got my raise. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I want to give a handshake to your colleagues. Because she, she was doing something there. She knew what was happening. And she did something for the goods.

Claudia Miller: 38:31

It's interesting how you say like about culture, because I think it's very common in other cultures as well, not just like Hispanic by like other cultures. But here's what I found. What I really think is interesting, like an Asian cultures, you know, it's more common to negotiate whether you're going to the market, or anything else, like they're encouraged to really negotiate their salaries. And from the staff saw how I mentioned, like spending will make 58 cents. Asian men make $1.14. So they actually get paid more than the Caucasian male, because they tend to negotiate and that's how Asian women, they still make 87 cents, they made more than most women, but, I mean, they're no more to negotiate your salaries, and they're still not even getting paid at that dollar level. So it's very common. And like, to your point, I actually found out that when I left one of my jobs that I was getting paid $40,000 more than my counterpart. Now, I would say like I've been, I mean, I'm an advocate of salary negotiation. I've been doing this for years now that throughout my career, it just stacks up like, because I asked for a 50 20k cap just leveling up and then when I realized how much she's making, I'm like, you know, I used to make this much right, like, you're grossly being underpaid. And then she's like, wait, what you're making how much I'm like, and I still get a 10% bonus. She's like, you wait, you get so it was you know, when I found out was alarming and I you know I said you should definitely go and negotiate your salary you should like, talk to them because you're have huge responsibilities that you need to be asking for it. And even if you're, you know, getting trying to apply to a new job internally within your department, you can still negotiate. I have had clients where they were, yeah, they were, they got a job in another department, but it was still within the company, they offered them $10,000 More than when they were making and of course, they already know what you're making, because it's within the company. And then I set up a strategy for her. And we actually asked for $20,000 More, additionally, plus a 10k. More, so would have been a 30k Bump. And you know, we were able to do it, they'll say, I don't know, this is really what we budgeted for and kind of went back like I understand, but I'm so excited. Like, honestly, here's the lumber I'm looking for, like, well give me a day, and we'll see what I can do. The next day, they had the job offer ready for the 30k increase from what they were making internally. So don't be afraid to negotiate even if it's internally.

Karla Carrion: 40:56

Yeah. And you know, what something that's important to point out is, you know, a lot of new grads, even as a new grad, you can still negotiate your salary. Yeah, don't feel like you have to take what they gave you what's on your offer letter, because you don't have any experience. And right now you're gaining the opportunity to get experience, you can still negotiate that there are definitely entry level rates. And if somebody wants to pay you less than that, ask for

Claudia Miller: 41:23

more. I actually had a client who was a, she was in her last year in college, and we work together and she got a$50,000 raise more she was gonna pay more $50,000 more than her peers at an entry level still call she didn't even graduate. But I mean, like, if you're really scared, practice and ask for 5000, I promise you, they will not even notice $5,000 from the books, ask for that just to give your practice. And then once we typically see like, oh, they actually gave me the salary. Because actually, there's actually another stat that said, 79% of people that ask for the raise, get the raise, so you have a 79% chance of getting it, let's say it's 100. But why not ask for $5,000 Extra, if you're really nervous just to kind of give you that experience. And then once you kind of get acclimated to that, then you start kind of building on that, then you start asking for those 5020 30 $40,000 more.

Karla Carrion: 42:18

Absolutely. And I think it's also important that when you're asking for your way that there's not one specific formula, or one specific strategy that works for everyone, you know, I think that's something that's really important to always consider when asking for a raise when negotiating your salary, or just trying to get your husband to do the dishes, whatever it is that you are negotiating. In any situation, one thing that you need to do is consider who your audience is. So if your manager is they are the type of individual that, hey, they are very numbers driven. But that's how they measure success is through your metrics, have those numbers memorized, have a wonder summarize that when you go and speak to them, boom, you can talk about numbers all day long with them. And they're not going to be able to dispute that. You know, if your manager if she's not all about numbers, maybe your managers about showing initiative showing how proactive you are, talk about the times when you took initiative to build out a new process, or a new strategy. Or maybe you took on the responsibility to train the new hires, whatever it may be, like, talk about that. So it's really about knowing your audience, and speaking to that audience, because that's going to be definitely I think, in addition to doing a good job, you know, like, if you're not doing a good job, and you know it, I mean, that's not going to be much of an argument, if you're gonna go and negotiate, but if you know that you're deserving a raise, and you want to negotiate that, know your audience, and then you know, come up with a strategy. Okay, how can I get my audience to listen to me? What's going to hit my audience's ears the most, and then bolted that that's going to be the best strategy to come up with?

Claudia Miller: 44:03

Yeah, there's like four different types of personalities. There's usually like the CEO, like the very, to the point, they don't like a lot of fluff. It's just like, get to the point. What do you want? What do you need for me? What kind of decision and let's move on? Then there's the analytical person, like the numbers, let me see the data. I need to have everything so that's when you want to have like your reports write down what did you do on this project? Who did you work with? What was the outcome? How was success measured? Why was this project even started in the first place? They're going to want to know the details. And then there's more of like that social person, then that's when I'm obviously I'm gonna say take him out for beers and increase, but know their personalities. And are they visual? I'm a visual person, I would love to see it graph. You telling me numbers, it's like, alright, you increase 5% or 10%. Okay, no, I increased 10% which equated to almost $2 million to the company. And this is how much the company or department has grown since we've implemented the strategies that I did. I looked at this and I'm seeing like, oh, wow, you're right. He really did a lot of great things. So it took really understanding like, not only like their personality, but their style and how they learn. Did they do a lot of PowerPoints? That means they're probably more visual? Are they more like on the hey, here's the spreadsheet of like, where our metrics are kind of the card, I mentioned that they're more numbers driven. If they're just like, hey, can you get to the point or like a hunk, can you hurry up or I'll give you five minutes, then just get to the point, here's where it is back the data. Here you go. Here's what I need to know. Don't add any more fluff because they're not going to want it unless they ask.

Karla Carrion: 45:34

Yes, actually consider your audience. That's going to be important.

Claudia Miller: 45:38

Yeah. Well, I mean, I hope this was very helpful to some of the listeners out there, especially whether you're job searching, unemployed currently and looking for that job, or you're currently in your current job and you're like, Alright, I need to leave or I need to move to the next opportunity. You know, we tried to put together a lot of tips that you can negotiate your salary, how to approach the job search overall, we want to be here to help and really help out you know, the ambitious, career driven woman that's looking to excel in her career. But I hope you enjoyed this episode. And again, Happy Women's International month.

Karla Carrion: 46:11

Thank you. Happy Women's International month. Ladies.

Unknown: 46:15

Thanks for listening in. If you liked this episode, you can go to our website roadmap to the executive suite.com For show notes and sign up to get alerts. All new episodes will be posted every Thursday. Talk to you next week.