Roadmap to the Executive Suite

Behind Being an Executive and Embracing All Your Roles

February 18, 2021 Claudia Miller Season 1 Episode 2
Roadmap to the Executive Suite
Behind Being an Executive and Embracing All Your Roles
Show Notes Transcript

What really happens when you are in the executive position? Is it possible for you to become an executive and still embrace all your other roles as an individual?

In this podcast, we are graced with the wisdom of an amazing woman and executive, Veronica Pinela. Veronica is currently the Executive Vice President at Paco Collective, and she is a seasoned marketing/advertising/PR professional with over 20 years' experience building client relationships, providing strategic solutions and thought leadership to clients and internal teams, and developing and driving agency operations and processes. She will share her journey, how she jumped into her career, and still being able to take care of her family. She will also share misconceptions of being an executive and what you can apply in order for you to move up in your career.

In This Podcast We Talk About:

  • Why it’s important to be in a supportive company that will embrace all your roles as an individual and a professional. 
  • The importance of creating a path that will help you do all your work and personal responsibilities.
  • How to handle conversations especially when it comes to handling work and life responsibilities.
  • The misconceptions that executives experience.
  • What Veronica recommends that you can apply and follow in order to move up in your career.

Connect With Veronica:
Veronica's LinkedIn

Links Mentioned:
Get to know more about My 90-Day Job Offer Program
Application to Work With Claudia Miller.
Roadmap to the Executive Suite
Networking Templates

About me:
I started my career like many people do: in an entry level role making around $35K a year, was the first to arrive and last to leave, putting a 110% into my job…But it wasn’t enough. 

I was consistently being passed up for promotions and realized I was being underpaid compared to my colleagues. 

I knew that in order to get ahead in my career and be able to make the money I wanted… to support the lifestyle I wanted…something had to change. 

So, I started investing in myself. I worked with a career coach, resume writer, read every career book that I could get my hands on, enrolled in career courses, and studied colleagues wo seemed to be crushing it in their careers. And after investing over $20,000 in resources, coaches, and books…and spending thousands of hours over five years…I realized that many of the common advice out there did NOT move the needle when it came to advancing your career! 

Instead, I handpicked and carefully selected what worked to create my now signature program, 90-Day Job Offer, that is unlike anything that is out there. I wish a program like this existed when I was going through my career advancement and salary negotiations. If so, it would have been a fraction of the cost and saved me over four years of frustration of trial-and-error. 

Since then, my clients have taken my ready-to-use resources to advance their careers in 90-days or less, and secured on average a 56% increase in salary (to date my clients have received $30,000 - $120,000 in additional earned income per year)!!

I help women in technology land fulfilling, high-paying jobs at a company that values and appreciates them. I’m on a mission to help women in tech collectively earn over a $1M in the next year. 

Will you join me?

Claudia Miller:

This is roadmap to executive suite podcast, a place where we talk about accelerating your careers and how to get to the C suite all tailored to the ambitious woman. We're here to have fun, feel empowered and get actionable steps to get you closer to your dream job and salary, no matter where you are in your career. I'm your host, Claudia Miller, and I'm a career coach who helps ambitious women get the jobs they want, all while getting them up to $50,000 in salary increases. I've been featured in Forbes MSNBC, and a one of the top 23 Most Innovative career coaches of 2025 Business Insider. Welcome to the show, and let's get started. Hi, today we have Veronica VLM Pinella. From Paco where we're going to talk about we have her today as a special guest. A little bit more above it Annika born and raised in Chicago Veronica VLM Pinella is the Executive Vice President, managing director F Baca collective with more than 20 years experience in the industry. We know NECA has worked on clients such as Amazon Blue Cross Blue Shield, comed Greater Chicago Food Depository, the Chicago Bears, and the Chicago White Sox. And by the way, that's just to name a few as EVP at Baco Veronika is responsible for agency operations, and the development and growth of the agency's client relationships. reporting directly into the CEO she oversees multiple departments and forms part of the agency's leadership team, helping to drive key decisions as well as agency vision, mission and culture. Prior to joining Paco, she served as the Midwest Regional Director for the Hispanic Scholarship Fund, where she oversaw all marketing, fundraising and community outreach efforts, raising nearly$1 million for local Latino students over the course of three years. She also served as the organization's local and national spokesperson, most notably on this Bertha medica, where she spoke about scholarship opportunities for Latino students across the country. I'm so happy to have you here. But Annika

Veronica Pinela:

Thank you, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah, I mean, by the way, with your body has such amazing accolades and achievements, I mean, a million dollars for the Hispanic Scholarship Fund. I mean, that's a huge deal. Like, I can't even imagine how many students you helped go into college and be able to pay that to continue their education where, you know, it's not always very easy, especially with scholarships, and you know, what it caused you to go to college?

Veronica Pinela:

Yeah, that was some of the most rewarding work that I've been a part of, of course, you know, is a team effort effort, we had a lot of help with the community, we had a lot of help with, you know, people who have really paved the way for, you know, myself or other students, it was a really great opportunity to, you know, to kind of give back a little bit and do some of the work that I really love to do in a really rewarding way.

Claudia Miller:

Now, that's amazing. I actually, I'm very grateful for your work, because I'm a recipient of the Bill and Melinda Gates Scholarship, which was run through the Hispanic Scholarship Fund. So I kind of see my young self, you know, having someone like yourself being able to pave those opportunities. Yeah, that's wonderful.

Veronica Pinela:

Yeah. Okay.

Claudia Miller:

So I mean, you know, I want to dive in, I love you know, the reason why we have this podcast is to bring more voice and awareness to women in the executive suite. And, you know, what we want to talk about is not only just if you want to make it to the C suite, while others may or may not always want to be there, or get to there, for whatever reason, but I want to make sure that we debunk any myths and misconceptions, we want to give you the real truth of what it's like to be a woman in an executive role, as well as your journey along the way. So you know, one of the things that I wanted to get started with is, when did you decide you wanted to become an executive?

Veronica Pinela:

Pretty early on, actually, in my career, that means a lot of things for a lot of different people, right? So I knew that I wanted to go into the advertising and marketing business and, you know, industry, pretty early on in my career, my education, and kind of knowing what that meant, it meant, you know, being more on the executive side on the business side, as opposed to, you know, what we would consider a creative role within the agency. And so just kind of knowing early on that I wanted to be someone I wanted to work on the business side and really make an impact in our clients marketing decisions. That meant I was going to have to be an executive. And of course, I started as a junior account executive, but my first agency job, and then have just kind of grown from there. So I don't know that I knew you know that early on, that I was going to want to make it to you know where I am today. But I knew that no matter what I was going to do, I wanted to continue growing. I always wanted to aspire to be, you know, more than what I was doing at the time. And so that's kind of how that started. And then just along the way, like I said, I've had some really great mentors, people who have really helped me to get to that next level, and have taught me a lot about you know what it means to be here.

Claudia Miller:

No, that's amazing. Using, I actually wanted to ask you so I know that some of our listeners out here may be in the manager director level position. So and I noticed on your LinkedIn profile that you went from director to VP, how did you make that jump?

Veronica Pinela:

So I mean, I've been at Taco collective now for 12 years. And I started, you know, when the agency was first getting started, the agency is POC was celebrating 15 years, this mace I've been on for almost, you know, the beginning of the inception of pocket collective. And so through the years I've grown, and, you know, I was at the director level. And, you know, one thing that I did was I spoke to the CEO, and just kind of talk to him a little bit about what my, you know, my goals were, he basically said to me, you know, what, do you want to do what, you know, what's your next step? And, you know, I was a little intimidated to hear that, I don't remember what the answer was, but he said, That's not good enough, you know, he said, Think bigger, think higher. And I think that that made me realize, you know, I really need to aspire to be more right than sometimes we give ourselves credit for. So, you know, at that time, it was clicked, okay. So, you know, my next step, it was really clear, I want to be a VP, I want to eventually get to the executive VP level. And so I was really grateful that he gave me the opportunity to really, like I said, aspire to be more he's like, No, don't talk to me about what you want to do. Tomorrow, talk to me about what you want to do, you know, in the long run, and he basically said, you know, you have the opportunity to write your own ticket, what does that look like? And so that's what I did. And I, you know, I set my goals for that had a lot of support, you know, from him and everybody else at the agency, and really, you know, put in the work to get there. I know that a lot of times, you know, it's a little bit scary. I mean, I had, at the beginning of my time with Paco, you know, I had a very young family. And so I was worried what is this going to mean, for me at home, sometimes we're a little bit concerned, you know, I can be really successful at work, does that mean that, you know, I'm gonna maybe falter at home and in my family life, and I think that that's, you know, sometimes a misconception, unfortunately, sometimes that does happen. But I think what I did for myself is to ensure that I was in a place that really aligned with all of my values, everything that was important to me, I'm really grateful that I found that at Paco, that's why I've been there as long as I have, because one thing I've always made clear from the very beginning was, you know, my family comes first. And while my career is very important to me, and I will never let anybody down my clients, or you know, my peers, or my boss, I just need everybody to understand that this is, you know, always going to be a priority for me. And they were very accepting of that, in fact, you know, they all feel the same way. So it was important for me to find a place that accepted, you know, every, all of who I am, and that includes, you know, a mom and a career woman and executive and so many other things. And so I think it's important for all of us to find somewhere that, you know, is really going to embrace all of that. And, you know, sometimes it's possible, sometimes it's not, and if it's not, you know, that's fine, we're going to work our way up and through the ranks, and also through different places that will finally land us in a place where we feel like we can really kind of own that part of who we are.

Claudia Miller:

Great. Well, I, you know, one thing that it sounds like is like the company at Bahco, they're very supportive, very understanding, you know, I've talked to a few friends where, you know, they're currently like, in their 30s, maybe late 20s. And some of them feel that their company just doesn't support that where, you know, all of a sudden, they start having a family, and you have to get there a little bit later, because maybe you're dropping off your child at daycare. Of course, this was pre COVID, I don't know, still happening. But afterwards, they'll have to leave early because they're had to pick up their kids or their child was sick. And it was seen frowned upon is just that person was in quotes, you know, like, oh, not putting in her portion. Now we have to pick up the slack. And of course, I think that's a horrible mentality to have, because there's so much that's being done. You don't know that mom may be working after hours, or when she was working before hours, like before she had a family like all of these negative things that come around it. Do you think that you would have been to an executive level at this point, if it weren't a company that wasn't supportive?

Veronica Pinela:

That's a good question. I'm not sure. And, you know, I think, you know, I would have done everything I could, if I were somewhere else to get there. Right. But I think that there's different ways that you can pave that way. And so a lot of times it's going to work sometimes, unfortunately, it doesn't. But you know, one of the things that I always made sure of is that everybody knew that, you know, because I was in that same position where I might have to leave a little bit earlier, especially with snow storms, like right now, you know, to make sure I get to daycare on time and what have you, or even sometimes in the middle of the day, step out for a little while to go to my son's you know, holiday assembly or something at school, but I never let that interfere with my work. And so, you know, I always made sure that everybody knew that at the end of the A day, you know, these are my responsibilities that I'm going to make sure that those, you know, get fulfilled, I'm not going to, you know, drop the ball on anything. Sometimes that means, you know, very early in the morning, sometimes that means later in the evening, and as long as I think you can prove the value that you have, right, and the company that you're working for, understands that you're a really key part of the team. And that, you know, they're willing to hopefully work with you on some of those instances, because they know that at the end of the day, you're going to get things done, you're going to make it happen, you know, don't worry, I'm going to meet my deadlines, I'm going to put in the work, it might not happen until, you know, much later in the evening. But it'll happen, right. And so I think it's really important for all of us to, you know, kind of pave that path for ourselves and put a plan together, if possible. Unfortunately, sometimes that means, you know, extra work, it's the reality. But, you know, if that's where you want to continue to grow, it's something that I think you should try to establish for yourself, and make sure that at the end of the day, you're almost indispensable, right? Yes, I might have to pick up a little bit here and there, but I'm important to this team. And, you know, it's important that everybody knows that,

Claudia Miller:

I'm glad that you brought that up, I'm a firm believer of you can have everything, you just can't do everything. And you know, as a career coach, when I working with you know, ambitious driven women that are looking to move to next step in their careers, or work in another company, one of the things that I really try to focus on is making sure that they work at the right company with the right culture, and they're gonna be accepting of that, to your point, you will get the job done, won't be maybe between the hours of eight to five, but the job will get done. And I think that's very important to highlight. And if, you know, maybe some people out there, don't feel like you know, their current company will be able to withstand that or support that, maybe it's time to start looking for another company that will support that. And it's

Veronica Pinela:

for some of us to help to make that change, right. So, you know, if you're in a position where you can help to form that culture and make it more accepting, we should absolutely be doing that. I know, I have team members, just yesterday, somebody on my team said, you know, they had a situation with their child where they had to step away for a little bit, and I was like, do what you got to do. And they felt so grateful for that. And I'm like, that's life, and especially right now in the times that we're in, it's like, you know, we're, we just have to make it work. And we have to be understanding of that, and it'll be fine.

Claudia Miller:

So maybe for some listeners out there, like, how did you like, give us like a almost like a mock session of how did you have this conversation like with your team or your boss, which, you know, is the CEO? How did you have this conversation?

Veronica Pinela:

So with the CEO, again, I've been there for a really long time. And when I started, it was a really small team very small. So it almost felt like I was coming in, you know, even the setting. I mean, the office space wasn't a lot, you know, I felt I remember I walked in, in the first day of work, all dressed up, and you know, feeling very formal. And then I looked around, and everyone was so casual, not just, you know, in their way they were dressed. I don't mean by that, but just the way that they were interacting with each other. And it felt like, you know, it didn't even feel like I was going to work, it was a very family oriented feeling. And there was, you know, a handful of us really, and it just kind of gradually grew into that I used to work with one of the co founders Pablo at a previous agency. And we just kind of met casually, I had heard he opened an agency, and I wanted to really just congratulate him and you know, check in with him. And I always joke that that was the longest lunch ever because I joined the team and never loved. And I said to him, I'm my older son at the time was two years old. And I said, Pablo, I can't work at an agency right now. You know, just because of what I had experienced in the past, which, you know, wasn't bad. It was just a little bit more traditional, in the sense of, you know, the hours and so forth. And he said, No, no, you know, we understand we're going to make it different. And so that just kind of gradually and naturally happened. And then as we started to grow significantly, you know, obviously, we had to put some parameters in place and make things a little bit more formal, but never losing the fact that we understand you know, people have lives outside of work. And so that was always part of the conversation. And with my teams, I tell them the same thing, look, you know, you're an adult, we're all adults, you're interested to get your work done until that falters. Do what you got to do when you have to do it and as long as things aren't slipping or not being you know, deadlines aren't being met. You know, I'm okay with with however you need to make your schedule work for you. And it's important I think that they know that that you know, not only how I feel but also the CEO and the co founders it's important that that's established from the top so they know that you know we're not just talking about it we're actually be You know about it, we're living it. And you know, we're all in that same position a lot of us are. And the other thing, too, I'll say is that, you know, it's not just about having, for example, Mike, you know, kids and having that be a big part of your life outside of work. There's people in the agency who maybe are not in that position yet, but they have other things going on. You know, we have marathon runners, we have, you know, people who are interested in a lot of different things. And so, anything that you have an interest in, or is important to you outside of work, we're going to support because we understand that it's, you know, it may not seem fair, like, well, what if I don't have kids? And, you know, where do I land and all of this, it's important, really to establish upfront, like you said, finding the right place, you know, and sometimes that's not always possible. But when it is possible, you really need to find a place that's going to support you, in all the different things that you are and all the things that are important to you.

Claudia Miller:

That's great. And by the way, if anyone out here is job searching, checkout, bucho collector for any job was easy culture. Sounds amazing.

Veronica Pinela:

We have a couple of openings. So definitely check us out.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah. Okay. Well, I think you kind of touched on it. But Annika but you know, what are some other misconceptions about, you know, being an executive VP, and especially as a woman,

Veronica Pinela:

I think, you know, one of the misconceptions that I certainly had early on was that you had to change who you are to conform right to, you know, the lifestyle or the types of cultures that are out there, and some of these, you know, corporations and, and, you know, I was just talking about this with somebody the other night, while I understand that was the case. And, absolutely, we always want to, you know, be polished and professional and hold ourselves to a high standard, you should never feel like you need to lose the essence of who you really are, right? That you got to where you are because of everything in your background, and your upbringing and your beliefs and your values. And so, you know, you shouldn't have to apologize for that, you know, I'm obviously, Latina, I speak English and Spanish, sometimes I go in and out of things. And so like I said, Well, I'm always going to be professional and polished, and make sure that, you know, I bring my A game every time, there's also a different side to me, and you know, that essence, you shouldn't have to hide who that is, and what that is. And I think that, you know, hopefully, as things are changing in the world, you know, and we can embrace that more, and we can make it more acceptable, to really be true to who you are in every situation that you're in. So I think that's one of the big ones that I had early on. And then of course, I'm hoping to help change. I think the other one is, you know, that there's a lot of competition, you know, at the top. And I think that some of that stems from Unfortunately, things that have, you know, been the case for a long time, maybe there isn't a lot of room for women in a certain position, or women of color, you know, and so there was this maybe mentality back in the day, where if there's one spot open, for somebody who looks like me get out of my way, I'm gonna go get it. And, you know, that is also unfortunate, and hopefully, is changing, because the reality is, you know, there is room for all of us, you know, we shouldn't have to be fighting for that one opening, right. So I think it's also up to all of us to help pave the way for other women and make more room at the top. You know, one of the things that I learned very early on is that if you know, the opportunities aren't going to come to you, it's very rare that somebody has to do something on a silver platter. Right. But if that's the case, then you know, go out and get that opportunity. And if it doesn't exist, go create it. And I know, I've done that early on in certain, you know, positions. And I feel like we need to continue to do that even more. So as you continue to grow, is that, you know, maybe some of these positions aren't currently available to us as women. So if anybody's in the position to help change that, you know, we should absolutely do that. Make those opportunities available, or create them if they don't currently exist.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah, no, I definitely agree. I mean, there's some people out there that you know, you hear that you should always have a mentor. And it's like, of course, I should have a mentor. But maybe I'm not ready yet. Or I just don't know who to reach out to, or they haven't asked if I you know, if they wanted to be my mentor, and that's not how it happens. I know that for one of my previous mentors, I reached out to him. And I noticed, you know, some really interesting things about his background, like, you've been promoted almost every two to three years at one of the top companies out there, how are you able to do this and he really saw my enthusiasm. And from there he's like, in that case, he actually did offer to be my mentor, but not many people get to ask because there's just a vagueness around it you know, what does it mean to become your mentor? Do I have to talk to you every week for two to three hours or are you going to follow through because not ever One, you know, you give someone advice, and it's like, oh, yeah, no, thank you. Thanks, Veronica. And then you never hear from them again, or you didn't ever know if it worked or whatever that was. So I think that one, it's important to like, what you're saying is finding a mentor to creating your opportunities. Sometimes maybe you feel maybe limited from where you're currently at whether it'd be your job. But that doesn't mean you can still, you can still go out there and network, whether it's within your company outside your company, you know, some reach out to someone, like I actually just reached out to you. But we actually met at a networking event, right, like, right

Veronica Pinela:

a couple of years ago.

Claudia Miller:

And I'm talking like three or four years ago, and when I looked you up, and I said, Hey, we don't I think you'd be great for this podcast. And I, you know, we haven't talked to probably since that networking event. And of course, here you are today, here we are on the show, but people are always happy to help. And that's what I really

Veronica Pinela:

importantly. And sometimes you don't realize that you're you know, maybe making an impact on someone, I know that I've been told in the past, you know, I look at you as a mentor, and I think, Oh, well, I had no idea. And then vice versa, where I've had people in my past who have made such an impact on my life and my career. And they may not even realize it. And so I think it's important to formalize that as much as possible. And that's so much, you know, in a, in a scheduling type of way, but really letting someone know, you know, I'm here for you, I'm happy to help in any way. And then also on the flip side, you know, letting those people who have made such an impact on your career in your life, know that they've done that, so that they can want to continue to do that. I know, early in my career, I had somebody who she was actually my direct supervisor. And one of the things that always stuck with me is that very early on, I came in at the most entry level position at the agency, and very early on, she kind of just threw me into, you know, the fire and said, Here, this is what you're going to work on. It was I remember, there was a very big presentation. And I said, I think you're talking to the wrong person. I don't know that I can do this. And she said, Sure you can, you know, I know you can, you've got this. And so you know that along with a lot of other things that she taught me along the way have always stuck with me. And I feel like I in turn, you know, work with my team members in that way, too. It's like, look, I'm gonna throw you into the water, because I know you can swim. But if you need a lifeline, just call me I'm here, I'm not going to let you drown. And that was something that I learned from her. And then I'm also trying to pay forward it. And the funny thing is that I actually heard one of my team members tell his team member, that exact line. And I felt proud, I was like, wow. And I'm like, I wonder if Jennifer, who was my mentor knows that all these years later, you know, we're kind of using her line. So make sure to reach out to her and let her know that.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah, definitely. She might have learned it from someone else or writing.

Veronica Pinela:

Exactly. Exactly.

Claudia Miller:

Great. So, you know, one thing I wanted to ask is, you know, you know, there are people out there that you know, are looking to move and accelerate their careers. If people could know, just three things about, you know, how to move up, how to get noticed and promoted and, you know, move up in their careers that they can apply to their life, like, what would you recommend, like three recommendations that you think people should apply or follow? Yeah, so

Veronica Pinela:

I think the first one is what we talked about, definitely speak up for yourself, you have to be your biggest advocate. That early on, I also, you know, learned that very early on in my career, you know, I think you have to go out and create those opportunities for yourself. And so, you know, if you're going to do something, no matter who you are, what you do, what your role is, be the absolute best at it. I know that sounds really cliche, but it's so true. You know, I put myself through college, I was a telemarketer. Some of you may not even know what that is, at this point in time. But, you know, making phone calls, and I thought, I can actually probably, you know, do something more I went to my boss and I, you know, gave them some ideas, because I was in school studying marketing, and I thought I knew everything. And it's what if we did this, instead, he gave me the chance. And then it you know, it turned out to be really successful for me in my career. But you know, that was the one thing where I learned it's like, okay, I'm the telemarketer. I'm the, you know, office administrator or office manager, but I'm going to be the best at it so that I can get noticed. I think that's number one. The second thing is, like I said, you know, if you find that there's something more you can do, or more you can contribute to the company, to your boss, just let them know, you know, take that chance to speak up, open up and say, you know, I was thinking maybe we can do things a little bit differently or I have this idea. So definitely make sure that you always are advocating for yourself. And then the third thing is also you know, what we kind of talked about make sure you bring others with you. You know, you never know where that person is going to land and they might be someone you who will then help you later on in your career as well. So I think it's all about, you know, being the best at everything you do, regardless of what that role or position is paving the way for yourself being your best brand advocate. And then lastly, bringing others with you, I think, you know, that'll help you to build a team, and mentors and help to mentor others who, hopefully at the end of the day will help you to create those opportunities that we've been, you know, talking so much about, and especially those that we need more of, in today's world.

Claudia Miller:

Great, no, that was very helpful, Veronica, and actually, you inspired me. So what I'm going to do is like for some of the listeners out there, I'm gonna be sharing one of the templates that you can use to reach out to someone on LinkedIn that you don't know. And then afterwards, I'll share another email, you can follow up once you're connected with them to say, hey, you know, I would love to get talking to you. So that way, you don't have to think about it or worry about it. I'll get the templates. It'll be on the website. But you know, it was a pleasure having you, Veronica, thanks, again, for sharing your you know, your journey, your insights, everything. I really appreciate it. And if people wanted to reach out to you, Veronica, where can they go? They can

Veronica Pinela:

look me up on LinkedIn. And then I can also share my email, I'm happy to have anybody you know, reach out to me directly. And I yeah, I look forward to connecting with your listeners, and anybody who really wants to chat about not only, you know, how I might help them, but how we can help each other. I love learning from different people all the time. So I'm very open to that two way conversation.

Claudia Miller:

Yeah. And is there anything I can do to help you?

Veronica Pinela:

I think, like you said, if you're going to, you know, show that information out. And then I'd love to just keep in touch with you, and see if there's anything else that I can do to help you or personally and also your listeners, I love to meet different people and help in any way that I can. So I thank you for this opportunity. This was really, really great.

Claudia Miller:

Of course, no, thank you. So I'll have on the show notes. You know, your contact information, your LinkedIn profile. So in case you wanted anyone listening wants to reach out to Veronica. It'll be right there. And you can even use the template that I'll have you use where it gets to be personalized. But thanks again very much for sharing. Thanks for being on the show.

Veronica Pinela:

Yes, thank you and thank you for your platform. This is really great. I love it.

Claudia Miller:

No thank you take care, take care. Thanks for listening in. If you liked this episode, you can go to our website roadmap to the executive suite.com For show notes and sign up to get alerts. All new episodes will be posted every Thursday. Talk to you next week.