Overcoming Underearning in the Workplace with Barbara Huson

Claudia Miller: 0:06

Welcome to roadmap to the executive suite podcast, a place where we talk about accelerating your careers all tailored to the ambitious woman. We're here to have fun, feel empowered and get actionable steps to get you closer to your dream job and salary, no matter where you are in your career. I'm your host, Claudia Miller, Athena, career coach and corporate trainer who helps ambitious women get the jobs they want, almost getting them up to $100,000 in salary increases. I've been featured in Forbes MSNBC, and Business Insider put me there Top Global list of top innovative career coaches, and the creative 90 day job offer program where I teach career driven women like you my proprietary strategy on how to land a job you love in less than 90 days, all while getting 30 to$100,000 in salary increases, no matter if you're just starting in your career, or you're ready to pivot into the executive suite. My clients have been able to move to the next step in their careers successfully pivoted into new industries without having to take a pay cut and broke it into management without any prior experience. I'm coming to you with a new episode every week on Thursdays with mindset job search, interview skills and sand negotiation advice with actionable strategies you can implement today to help you get ahead in your career. Now let's get started with this week's episode. I am so excited for today's guest I have Barbara Hewson previously known as Barbara Stanny, who is the leading authority on women wealth and power as a best selling author, financial therapist, teacher and wealth coach Barbara has helped millions take charge of their finances and their lives. Barbara's background and business her years as a journalist and her master's degree in counseling psychology. Plus her extensive research and her personal experience with money gives her a unique perspective and makes her the foremost expert in empowering women to live up to their financial and personal potential. Barbara Houston has been featured Good Morning America the view extra, the O'Reilly report in many times on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, Fox News, PBS and NPR, as well as the New York Times and USA Today. Barbara is the author of seven amazing books, including Prince Charming is incoming how women get smarter about money, Secrets of six figure women surprising strategies to up your earnings and change your life. Overcoming under earning a five step plan to a richer life. Finding a financial advisor you could trust a guy for investors and those who want to be breaking through getting past the stock points in your life, sacred success, a course in financial miracles, and rewire for well three steps any woman can take to program her brain for financial success. And you can learn more about Barbara and her work at WWE that Barbara hewson.com also include her website in the show notes so you can access them. I am so excited to have in the podcast, Barbara Houston on the show. And Barbara by the way, I just want to say thank you so much. And not only behalf of myself, but other women, so many of my followers and people on LinkedIn definitely adore you. And I've heard so many stories from them that how you change their life, their lifestyle, their income. So I just want to say thank you on behalf of all of us for all the great work that you've done. So thanks again for coming on the podcast. That just made me want to

Barbara Huson: 3:25

cry. You as an author, you never know. I mean, you just never know. So that's really sweet of you to say that. Thank you,

Claudia Miller: 3:35

of course. And I know thank you so much for also participating in LinkedIn. I know if you have my I made a post about reading secrets of six figure women and if you're on video, you can see like all the tabs and that I have just from insights, like great posts, ideas, things I can work on with my clients. And immediately it was just a flood of comments coming in talking about how much they love your books, how you changed your life. And then you went in and responded and I feel like

Barbara Huson: 4:04

oh, that was a while ago. I did. That was so cool. Yeah. Oh my god.

Claudia Miller: 4:09

I actually went back to them and asked him if they have any questions for you. So I have a few questions and that I definitely want to ask and then I have some inspiring stories. I don't think I'll get to all of them. But I'll definitely share them with you because they wanted me to tell you like how much you change their lives. So

Barbara Huson: 4:27

Wow. Are you kidding me? Emotional seriously. Thank you. Of

Claudia Miller: 4:30

course. No, thank you and I'm so excited for this podcast and just having you on the show. And you know I actually heard about you through my mentor. She's a business and sales mentor, Amanda baya I don't know if you remember but make money your honey. And she was talking about under earning and immediately I went and bought your book through audible. I just listened to her while walking my dog. And I immediately knew I need to order this on paperback because I like to take notes. I like to like scribble and put pull Stutz and I needed to mark it down. So I bought the book and I thought secrets of six figure women. And there's just so many great insights and golden nuggets that I want us to kind of dive into. Because, you know, as you know, I've served and worked with a lot of career ambitious women. And one of the things that I've seen is, they're looking to land a fulfilling role, but maybe not. So they don't care so much about the salary, or that's what they say, or salary usually comes in second hand or like the second value. They rather look and find that fulfilling role. But my philosophy is, let's get you to fulfill your role while still getting you the market rate for that role. So whatever that salary is, and sometimes it can be double their salary doesn't matter what it is, well, I still want you to get it because you deserve it, and you're doing the work. So I just wanted to know, like, overall, like, how did you get started with helping women with money and that kind of low a little bit about your background? Because I've read your books, but kind of like in your own words,

Barbara Huson: 5:58

you cannot Well, this is not at all what I expected to be doing with my life. I lived most of my life in this dense financial fog. I did not understand money. I didn't care about money. I came from a very wealthy family. My father was the heart of h&r block. And the only advice he ever gave me financially was Don't worry. And honestly, Claudia, I love that advice. Oh, that was great. I didn't, I didn't understand money. I just wanted to spend it. And he really felt that making and managing money was a man's job, which was fine. And I married a man who was a stockbroker. So it was perfect. But what I realized very early in my marriage is he was a compulsive gambler. Over the course of our 15 year marriage, I find out many times a year that he was gambling, my inheritance, my Americans away. And here's the insane part, I continue to let him manage it, because that's how intimidated I was and terrified by anything to do with money. Finally, after 15 years, we got a divorce. And I decided money's not my thing, I do not want to deal with money. Well, I now have this theory that if you don't deal with your money, your money will deal with you. And it sure dealt with me. Because right after my divorce soon after my divorce, I got tax bills, for way over a million dollars way over for bad Texas, my ex didn't pay for illegal deals, he got us in. And I just signed whatever he told me to sign. But my ex had left the country, I did not have anywhere close to a million dollars. And my father wouldn't lend it to me. And I had three daughters. They were young one was a baby, I was not going to read those girls on the street. So I did what I thought I was supposed to do. I started reading books, I went to classes, and I did all that and my eyes would glaze over, my brain would fog up. But I was committed, I was not going to raise those girls on the street. And I really believe that when you are committed, the universe revolves to help you reach your goal. I was at the time I was a journalist writing for the San Francisco Business Times and I was hired for a freelance project to interview women who were smart with money. And those interviews changed my life. I not only got smart about money, but I wrote my first book, Prince Charming as incoming a woman get smart about money. And now here I am, 27 years later, seven books later talking to you as an expert.

Claudia Miller: 8:40

That's amazing. It's amazing. Like why do you feel like some women have difficulty with money. And I know that. I mean, I feel like it's cultural. It's also people anchored their money based on where they're at. So if you're low poverty guidelines, you anchor it by like adding a few extra, whether it's a 10 hour, if you're making $10 an hour, well, then a good income will be$12 an hour, never, hey, I want to make $100 an hour. But from your experience and your expertise, why do you feel like women have so much difficulty?

Barbara Huson: 9:13

So I realized this very early when I was reading my first book, I really believe that women's difficulties with money has nothing or very little to do with money per se. And it has everything to do with their fear of or ambivalence of power. Because we don't understand power from a feminine perspective. And my definition of a powerful woman is someone who knows who she is. Who knows what she wants, and expresses that in the world, unapologetically. So essentially, our fear of power is our fear of becoming fully who we're meant to be. Are instead of speaking up and saying what we want or saying no to what we don't want We water ourselves down, and what money demands us to do, what creating wealth and abundance demands us to do, it demands us to become a container to own our power, so that we can attract so that we can sustain and the way to grow our wealth. And so that's really what is under it. It's not about the money. It's about being comfortable with becoming all that we can be.

Claudia Miller: 10:28

And from your experience, like what are some like the first few steps and I know you have workshops and books, but like if someone was listening to this podcast saying, You know what, I realized that I have money, maybe issues, mindsets, whatever that is, and I want to get better. And I want to become that other version of myself that I always dreamed I could be what would be like some of like the first one or two tangible actionable steps they can take?

Barbara Huson: 10:50

Well, I think the first step, if you say, This is what I want, what will often happen is anything unlike itself, will come up. So you say I want to make more money, and you'll start noticing all these reasons why you can't make money. So the first thing to do is tell the truth about what's not working. Like when you really make that commitment, see what comes up. And what I noticed, in all my interviews with successful women, their financial achievement, was often almost always preceded by a financial challenge. And it was by addressing that challenge addressing that problem, seeing it, hitting it full on telling the truth about what's not working. That was the beginning.

Claudia Miller: 11:39

Yes, and I feel like it's an ongoing process. So more you keep on growing.

Barbara Huson: 11:46

It is ongoing, and because there's always other challenges that come up. But as Henry Kissinger said, it's one of my favorite quote, a problem ignored is a crisis and find it. So whatever the problem is you're having with money, that is the very thing you must address, even if you don't know how, even if you don't know what you're going to do that least tell the truth. And then second, the second thing is you make a commitment, you make a commitment that no matter what happens, I am going to address this and you don't have to need to know how, because there's something magical that happens when you make a commitment, it will start drawing opportunities to you. And it will start showing you things will come to you that you need to do the trouble is those opportunities, always like just outside your comfort zone. So the third step, telling the truth, making a commitment. And the third step is being willing to do what you're scared to do or don't want to do. This is the number one requirement for going to the next level in anything, not just with money in everything. Because success. Whether it's making more money or losing more weight, always lies just outside our comfort zone. I ask under earners, when's the last time you did something you didn't want to do or were scared to do? And they'll scratch their head and they'll think highest higher earners? When's the last time you did something you're scared to do or comfortable, didn't want to do? They say all the time, it's a way of life. I call it the higher earner slogan, if it's not illegal or immoral, just

Claudia Miller: 13:30

say yes. And actually, I feel like I started this podcast a year ago with no background, no expertise. And I'm like, You know what, I just feel like I can get and reach more people starting a podcast. And I think I bought like a $40 course and how to start a podcast. And a year later. I mean, I have you on the show. But kind of like to your point is like always doing those things that scare you the most. But if it excites you, I mean, there's just so many possibilities that we can even see when we're taking those first few steps.

Barbara Huson: 13:59

And so it's like, the path is there for you. If you want to make more money, the path is there for my kids. So I have three daughters. They're in their 30s and 40s. And they always whenever they feel stuck, whenever they feel confused, whenever they don't know what to do. They always call me and they say what should I do? I don't know what I'm going to tell them because I always tell them the same thing. I always say what are you most scared to do? And they'll tell me I said, that's what you need to do. So if you want to make more money or you want anything, you will look at what you're scared to do. And that that's exactly where you go with. This is then saying the obstacle is the path. And that is the way you overcome under earning.

Claudia Miller: 14:41

And I would say to like if anyone listening to the podcast right now you're like, Well, okay, I want to start and you gave some really three tips on how to get started. Also, just by overcoming under. You have a great way of telling the story but also it's almost like a workbook inside of it because you ask very profound and prompting question. shins that even for me, I felt like I've done so much money mindset work. I grew up, you know, on food stamps, I lived in a homeless shelter when I was a child with my mom. And, you know, from then on, I got a job making 30k First one of my family graduate college, and then I had to break through just to get, you know, to 70k. And then I did work and then finally got to six figures, and then now having to do the work as a business owner. So like I said, it's very ongoing, and it just never ends. I know, there's more obstacles to come and challenges and money mindset work to do. But if anyone listening out there, you want to take the first step, buy the book, I think it's a really great workbook to really get your start prompting, asking the right questions and kind of like what you said, what comes around when you talk about making more. And sometimes if you're like, I really don't know where to start, just tell your family, you want to earn more, and they'll tell you all the things that you've been told, since you were a child, don't be greedy, don't rock the boat, Don't ask for too much, you're gonna get fired. And I feel like a lot of those values. And at least those myths we have in our mind also comes from a lot of our family, what they tell us, especially being women, are

Barbara Huson: 16:09

we inherit our relationship with money. It comes from it not our family of origin, from the church, from the educational system, from our peers, however we grew up, and it is absolutely inherited. And that's why making more money. You know, I always thought that if I read the right books, if I did the right things, but what I've learned, it's a four pronged process, that there is the outer work of wealthy inner work of wealth, the higher work of wealth, and the deeper work of wealth. And most people start with the practical, you know how to tell the difference between stock and bond or how to negotiate a raise or whatever. But if that doesn't work, and from most of us, it doesn't, it's not enough, then you need to go to the inner work, which is really looking at the psychological, the emotional aspects, your attitudes, beliefs, and early decisions you made in my money, because those are the things that are holding you up. And then there's the third prong, which is the higher work of wealth, which is the spiritual. And I believe this is what motivates women, numerous studies, hundreds of studies have shown, men are very motivated by profit by perks by prestige, not women, once we have reached financial stability, once we have food on the table, a roof over our head, we're not motivated by money, we want to make money, but what motivates us is the opportunity to help others to really do what we're on this planet to do. And if you can identify what moves you what motivates you, that's a big deal. And the fourth is what I call the deeper work of wealth. And that's the mind brain connection. Because all our behavior is controlled by our brain and trying to change by our behavior. Without trying to change the neural pathways in our brain is exhausting and not very successful.

Claudia Miller: 18:14

That's a really great, like I said, like, there's just, there's so many levels to it, that even it's like you got it, there's still more and new things just keep uncovering for it. What would you say is the biggest surprise that you've had when interviewing six figure women?

Barbara Huson: 18:32

Oh, my gosh, I think the biggest surprise for me of all and I had quite a few surprises. But the biggest surprise, so I interviewed for the secrets of six figure women 154 Women who made six and seven figures. And my biggest surprise was how you want them were wealthy. I remember interviewing a woman who was in the entertainment. She was an executive in the entertainment industry in Hollywood with one of the big studios. She was a high level executive. And she made 700,000 over 700,000 A year and this was in 2020. And she said Barbara, I feel like one step away from frigerator carton on the street. I suppose that a year she said my biggest investment or shoes in Neiman Marcus. She had the sense that she was nearing 50 That someone was going to come and savor just this not necessarily a man just this amorphous something. And I think that is the biggest shock. These women were so busy making money. They had what I call the illusion of a fluid. They were so busy making it that they didn't have the time or the skills or the interest to manage it. And wealth. Prosperity does not come from what you earn. It comes from what you keep. It comes from what you do with what you were

Claudia Miller: 20:00

That's amazing. And yeah, I mean I, I have like clients were kind of like to your point like they have two incomes. And I actually, back in the day I used to be a licensed financial rep. So I used to do a lot of financial advising. And I saw that it was very common where, you know, they were making three, four or 500,000. And they were living paycheck to paycheck. But yeah, they were hosting these extravagant events, having a cater costing, you know, 510 1000 for this event, plus private school that they literally, if they were to get laid off, or one of them were to get laid off or something were to happen, it can really break down that sensitive foundation that they had created. Because it was all relied on every single paycheck, it was already accounted for, and it wasn't for savings or retirement.

Barbara Huson: 20:49

It what happens is research has shown us that when people start earning more money, they unconsciously start sending Norman, and it may not be on big $5,000 events, it may just be on frittering money away, but those small amounts add up. So it's really important that you don't just focus on the earning you also focus on the keeping, if you want to create wealth, and that's really what I'm about is helping women really create wealth, really creating more than enough, because that's where the power is. And that's where the fun is. And there's four rules, what I call the four rules of wealth, the poor roll through others, you spend less, you save more, you invest wisely, and you give generously in that order. We women, we tend to have the giving generously part down pat. But giving generously without spending less saving more. And investing wisely, is always an act of self sabotage. Because not only do you jeopardize your own future security, but you diminish the impact you can make with your money. And that's really what wealth is all about. It's not just having more money in the bank, it's knowing that we can make a difference in our lives in the lives of people we love, in causes we feel passionate about.

Claudia Miller: 22:14

I don't know if you've heard this, but I just recently heard this stat that if women were to pass away before their husbands, it is like an 80 90% chance your husband will remarry. Whereas the percentage is not the same for women, if they were to become a widow, it's a less percentage of them to remarry. So it was talking about how you need to make sure you have your finances in place, especially like a trust funds with your kids that way it could be protected from the you know, second wife, they may be coming in. So that way your children are still able to get the assets, you want to leave them after you pass. But also the other stat is women are more likely to outlive their husbands. So even if you're in that relationship of when my husband handles the finances, or what's going to happen if he were to pass before your since women do tend to outlive their spouses. So kind of getting to that thought of like, well, my husband always takes care of that, or I don't need to know those things, or I'm not good with money or math. There's always ways that you can learn especially now with YouTube, Google, I mean, they're just so many even free resources or going to the library and getting books on like finance for Dummies just to get started and really kind of capturing to what you were saying on not just making it but retaining it and investing it.

Barbara Huson: 23:27

Yeah, but let me just say that based on my own experience, and you're 100% right. But there's two things with that. The reason women aren't handling money well, is not because of the practical because they don't understand it. It's because there's something going on in their psyche that is keeping them in resistance or keeping them in fear. And that's why I think the inner work is so important. If you're reading like me, I was reading I was studying and I couldn't get it. And it wasn't. Well, I'll tell you the story. So I get divorce. I have no money. I get these million dollars, over a million dollars in tax bills. I was beside myself, but I couldn't. It was like I would read a financial book. I was like, I was reading Swahili. My. And so I went to a therapist. And I remember sitting down at therapist office, I'm every single, oh, I want to get smart about money. I really do. I really want to understand this stuff. I really like don't understand, I really want to and he stops me. And I'm going I really want to get this and he looks me in the eye and he says no, you don't. And it was like there was a part of me that could not. I couldn't it was like there was a part of me that didn't want to get smart. There was a part of me that was afraid if I tried to take control of my money I'd lose everything. If I didn't let my husband do that and take the blame to me. I was afraid that my parents would get mad at me I was afraid that a man wouldn't love me if I became financially successful. And it wasn't until I started understanding, in dealing with those deep seated unconscious beliefs I had, that I was able to free myself and really start getting a handle on.

Claudia Miller: 25:17

From your experience, what do you feel like are the top three or five unconscious beliefs women have around money or fear that they have?

Barbara Huson: 25:25

Well, the big fears, they're gonna blow it, they're gonna make a mistake, they're gonna screw up. That's a big fear. And their fears are so varied. But usually, if you look at the fears your family had about money, you look at the beliefs your family had, you look at how you were surrounded. That's what they are. But it's usually some fear of screwing up of making a mistake of blowing it all.

Claudia Miller: 25:51

Perfect. And then kind of like to touch on that point to that. So how do you restart rewiring your brain for financial success.

Barbara Huson: 26:01

So let me suggest this is what I did. So I finally got that I really needed to get my act together. I was in counseling, and I also did a lot of work on myself, which was really helpful. But I still needed to understand it. So as I did, you know, the healing, as I saw, got clear on why I wanted to do this. And my goal, I just thought, I want to help women, not go through what I went through. That was what was driving me. So I had my purpose. And I saw it, then I did three things, these three things, because what I realized, it's like, it was just I was just confused. So what I realized now is it's small steps consistently taken that lead to remarkable results. And if you do these three steps for, say, two or three months, you will be amazed at the difference you're having. And I still do these three steps to this day, every day, read something about money, even if it's just for one minute, even if you just open the newspaper to the business section and peruse the headlines. Or even if you're standing in line at the grocery store, you pick up Money Magazine and leak through it, or before you go to bed at night you take a money book, but you read one paragraph. Because so much of getting smart or smarter is just familiarizing yourself with the jargon and the current trends. So every day read something about money just for a minute or two. Every week, have a conversation about money with preferably with someone that knows more than you. I believe it is our secrecy and silence that keeps us stuck. I mean, when's the last time you went out with a friend or a colleague or a family member and said, How did you get smart? What did you do? What's the best advice you were given? What's the worst advice? What's the biggest mistake you ever mean? What's the best thing you ever did? So that's what I started doing. I started just anybody who knew anything, I started picking their brain. And it was amazing how I still do that. So every day read every week talk. And every month, they automatically have money transferred from your checking account or your payroll check to his savings account. And you'll be amazed how small amounts and it's better to go small, saving automatically than too much. No, those small amounts add up. So every day, we every week, talk at every month, and you will be amazed you will be

Claudia Miller: 28:40

and I think that you also have a book on finding a financial advisor you can trust. So if you're in that situation where like well maybe I need also help with a financial advisor while I'm still learning and educating, depending that you have a book on how to help him find that right financial advisor. So I'm

Barbara Huson: 28:56

a big believer in working with financial advisors. least what I've noticed is that the women who had the highest net worth didn't necessarily make the most money. But they all at some point, worked with financial professionals.

Claudia Miller: 29:13

Yeah, we have a really great financial advisor who works with our accountant. And now we're bringing in the lawyer to make sure that we're covering all bases while we're also learning as well.

Barbara Huson: 29:23

Yeah, I think it's important to work with the team. I think, if you work with one advisor, it just started out with finder's fee, only financial planner, someone that will do a plan that will get all your information, all your data. And because the only what you want to do is you want to make sure that you don't outlive with your money. And so if you create a financial plan with someone who knows how to do that, it really takes the emotion out of making financial decisions. I love

Claudia Miller: 29:56

this. There's this concept of where a pilot or already knows where they're going to pull the parachute like where they're going to be launched, before it actually needs to happen. So it doesn't they don't wait for the crisis to happen, then decide, Oh, should I, you know, kind of eject myself out of this airplane instead is, when this happens. This is the action I would take so removes that anxiety, that decision fatigue or decision making it just we already know when a happens, B needs to happen. So kind of like the same thing with your money with a financial advisor. Exactly. Yes. So I'm curious to know, like what made you write your latest book rewire for wealth.

Barbara Huson: 30:34

So it was so interesting, around 20, about seven years ago, eight years ago, 2015 26, somewhere around there, the strangest thing happened, I started to lose interest in my work. And my I love what I do. It's not a job. It's like, it's my purpose. It's my mission, my ministry. And I started to lose interest. And I started feeling like something is missing. Like if I could just find what's missing. And one day, I was on email. And I saw this article that came in my inbox on neuroscience, I knew nothing about neuroscience, I knew is a study of the brain. That's all I knew. And I started reading this article. And it was like, wow, I swear, some part of my brain was to lit up like a Christmas tree. And it said, This is it. This is the missing piece. And I started studying. I spent several years studying neuroscience, and integrating it with what I was always doing with the personal finance with the spirituality with the psychology and the neuroscience. And I created this whole new approach, this whole new way of approaching financial literacy becoming financially savvy by integrating that in. And it's been amazing, it's been truly amazing. What I found is it expedites the learning process. Because I think I said it earlier, when we want to get smart about money, it's not just about learning, we need to change our behavior. And our behavior is controlled is governed by the neural pathways in our brain. And our brain doesn't want to change. So trying to change our behavior, you've tried, I've tried trying to change your behavior, it's like the brain won't want to know. And it's just really hard when you understand how the mind and brain work together, that the brain is the physical organ in the body that controls our behavior. But our mind is a non physical entity. That's a source of our thoughts and feelings. And it's those thoughts and feelings that shape our brain that can shape the neural pathways. And when we can learn how to train our mind, to rewire our brain changes things so quickly. And not just with money with everything. But of course, my thing is money. So about rewiring for wealth.

Claudia Miller: 32:59

That's great. And by the way, I know we're coming close to our end time. But Barbara, if you know some of our listeners want to learn more, where can they find you. And by the way, I went through your website, and I feel like I went through almost every single spot of your website, I noticed that you also do workshops, and then one on one as well with people. So if some of the listeners are like, well, I want to hire Barbara, I already know she's the best. And I just rather go and work with an expert. Can you give a little bit overview of what that looks like?

Barbara Huson: 33:27

Yeah, so the best thing is to go to my website, Barbara, I can choose to Barbara dash Houston, Hu s o n. Yeah, I do individual coaching. I do group coaching. And I do workshops.

Claudia Miller: 33:43

That's great. And one thing we're gonna do, because like I said, You're so loved by so many and you do such great work. If you listen to this podcast, leave a review, wherever you're listening to a we have it's posted on what is Alexa, Google, Apple podcast, Spotify, just leave us a review of what you'd like the most about, you know, this specific episode. And if you've already read of some of Barbara's books, let us know some of your insights or how you change your life. We want to hear about it. And then from those reviews, we're gonna give away two books for rewire for wealth, and then two books for how to overcome under earning. So yeah, I'm excited. And of course, like I said, I'll definitely share with you all the amazing stories. And I actually had someone on my Facebook group who said that they read your book at the age of 26. And immediately they made it a goal like I need to become a six figure earner, you know, and by the age of 30. She was able to do it that same year after reading your book. So it really works. It's life changing. And I think that you touched on so many things, mindset psychology, even a kind of like the family values fears around it that maybe we've just inherently from watching movies, books, or whatever that is have really impacted us. And it's just like a full cycle of every Think that's impacting when it comes to money, which I feel that, you know, why should we get paid that 80 cents on the dollar, we should deserve the full dollar we're doing the work. It's not like we're doing 80% of the work. So let's make sure that we overcome under earning, we have to pull ourselves right now we have a systemic issue where we're not getting paid equally, but we still have the power in order to make sure we get paid what we deserve. So definitely recommend the books, you know, following Barbara Hewson on LinkedIn and I know you're active as well as you want more one on one work to go to your website and either do group coaching individual or workshops. But thanks again, Barbara, for coming on the show. I'm so happy to have you here. And thank you for sharing with us your wisdom and your expertise.

Barbara Huson: 35:43

You I really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you so much.

Claudia Miller: 35:46

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